Hello Guys,
I am a new member here. I have a question for you guys?
Q: I have a friend that was recently terminated because of her teammates that work with her who are recruiters as well, they were saying bad things about her to her bos and discreditizing her. Her boss never investigated the issue was just writing her up on everything that was being said. One day her boss just called her and termed her without valid reasoning, the issue is that my friend who was termed signed the write up she was given. Could she have done something different?? any advise we can get?? can she still dispute anything after six months even though it is employement at will here in IL??
From United States, New York
I am a new member here. I have a question for you guys?
Q: I have a friend that was recently terminated because of her teammates that work with her who are recruiters as well, they were saying bad things about her to her bos and discreditizing her. Her boss never investigated the issue was just writing her up on everything that was being said. One day her boss just called her and termed her without valid reasoning, the issue is that my friend who was termed signed the write up she was given. Could she have done something different?? any advise we can get?? can she still dispute anything after six months even though it is employement at will here in IL??
From United States, New York
Hi Jpg_2020,
Welcome to the forum..
We are surprized to note this development and feel sorry for her.
Yes, she could have refused to sign the write up..besides whenever there is the abberation in the performance..it is the duty of the Employer to address the issue holistically to ensure the performance of the employee is improved..
In normal course, it is advisable that the Management should issue the memo on this matter indicating the parameters or performance metrics desired with ample opportunties and time frame.
However in the above case the natural principles of justice and equal opportunities has not been followed.
Well, since you are based in US where the legal systems & torts are far more advanced & active than any other nation..therefore would suggest that you contact a local lawyer to guide you on the above issue..atleast she can sue them for harassment & forced/pressured to sign the write up..or settle for a lumpsum payment as a compensation atleast.
Hope this helps and please let us know the progress of the same.
Best Wishes,
Rajat
From India, Pune
101Welcome to the forum..
We are surprized to note this development and feel sorry for her.
Yes, she could have refused to sign the write up..besides whenever there is the abberation in the performance..it is the duty of the Employer to address the issue holistically to ensure the performance of the employee is improved..
In normal course, it is advisable that the Management should issue the memo on this matter indicating the parameters or performance metrics desired with ample opportunties and time frame.
However in the above case the natural principles of justice and equal opportunities has not been followed.
Well, since you are based in US where the legal systems & torts are far more advanced & active than any other nation..therefore would suggest that you contact a local lawyer to guide you on the above issue..atleast she can sue them for harassment & forced/pressured to sign the write up..or settle for a lumpsum payment as a compensation atleast.
Hope this helps and please let us know the progress of the same.
Best Wishes,
Rajat
From India, Pune
Hi Rajat,
When I was in Coke, i seen this type of case. simply employer used to force for resignation in place of termination while they want to terminate. If he/she will not give resignation, the another way to compel to resign. It is the technique that is prevail. If they have terminated her without giving any opportunity to express, well she can knock the court door too but she is not going to be benefited. just she will get some compensation. If it is in US, something may be in favour of employee. if it is the case in India, difficult to say anything...........
Regards
Sidheshwar
From India, Bangalore
When I was in Coke, i seen this type of case. simply employer used to force for resignation in place of termination while they want to terminate. If he/she will not give resignation, the another way to compel to resign. It is the technique that is prevail. If they have terminated her without giving any opportunity to express, well she can knock the court door too but she is not going to be benefited. just she will get some compensation. If it is in US, something may be in favour of employee. if it is the case in India, difficult to say anything...........
Regards
Sidheshwar
From India, Bangalore
Hi Sidheshwar,
Yes i agree ..in my earlier stages of career i had been tparty to this..to get rid of the staff not wanted by the Management by similar methods..it is devasting experience for the aggrieved party..thereafter i made sure that they were given adequate time & compensation ..also placed them in other companies..here a lot of counselling skills is required and deft management of the situation with the Top Management as well.
Yes, i agree ..being in US she has ample opportunities to address her grievances through legal procedures..if she is able to create prima facie case ..am sure she would be chased by lawyers who would see $ opportunity...BUT in India, similar case - i would have said forget the whole thing & MOVE ON...
Cheers,
Rajat
From India, Pune
Yes i agree ..in my earlier stages of career i had been tparty to this..to get rid of the staff not wanted by the Management by similar methods..it is devasting experience for the aggrieved party..thereafter i made sure that they were given adequate time & compensation ..also placed them in other companies..here a lot of counselling skills is required and deft management of the situation with the Top Management as well.
Yes, i agree ..being in US she has ample opportunities to address her grievances through legal procedures..if she is able to create prima facie case ..am sure she would be chased by lawyers who would see $ opportunity...BUT in India, similar case - i would have said forget the whole thing & MOVE ON...
Cheers,
Rajat
From India, Pune
So how would she contest this situation is there any guidance that can be given to me to realate to her?? Do u guys think she still has potential to get some sort of compensation even though she wa termed in Jan of 2006 is it too late??
As far as her obtaining another job how should she go about still using her prevouse employer as a reference??
From United States, New York
As far as her obtaining another job how should she go about still using her prevouse employer as a reference??
From United States, New York
I'm not clear as to the reasons for her termination "co-workers saying bad things about her" is not sufficient.
How long had she worked there?
Was her performance evaluated? When was the last time? How was her performance rated?
What "bad things" were being said?
How old is she?
Has she encountered any type of discrimination on the job?
Has she encountered any inappropriate comments/actions by co-workers so as to establish a hostile work environment?
The answers to the above will clarify the circumstances.
I think you are confusing Employment at Will with Right to Work. They are two separate concepts.
The "Employment at Will" doctrine is used only where there is no employment contract between the parties. In the past, employers could terminate for "good cause", "bad cause" or "no cause". As time passed that unrestrained authority of the employer has been modified by various laws such as the Equal Employment opportunity Act and Public Policy restrictions.
Right to Work allows employees to chose to join a Union in the workplace or not. It prohibits a "closed shop".
I'm assuming that the write up was a Release. A document which protects the employer from any future action which could be taken by the ex-employee under the various laws. For example, an allegation of sex/age/national origin discrimination. The ex-employee has to be given an opportunity (usually 10 working days) to review the Release and/or discuss it with an attorney.
Since she signed the write up under duress, a case could be made that it was involuntary and therefore is invalid.
As far as using the former employer as a reference, she should be mindful of what will be provided to the inquiry. If the employer only provides dates of hire and responsibilities, there is no problem.
However, if they go beyond that and indicate that she was terminated without mentioning the reasons, or whwere the reason were not true, then your friend may have sufficient cause to pursue a civil case.
Having said all that, under the EEO guidelines your friend has 180 days to file a complaint. She could check with a the EEO to determine if there are special circumstances which would waive/extend the time limit.
In any case, I would suggest that she contact a labor lawyer for consultation.
Hope this helps
PALADIN
From United States,
How long had she worked there?
Was her performance evaluated? When was the last time? How was her performance rated?
What "bad things" were being said?
How old is she?
Has she encountered any type of discrimination on the job?
Has she encountered any inappropriate comments/actions by co-workers so as to establish a hostile work environment?
The answers to the above will clarify the circumstances.
I think you are confusing Employment at Will with Right to Work. They are two separate concepts.
The "Employment at Will" doctrine is used only where there is no employment contract between the parties. In the past, employers could terminate for "good cause", "bad cause" or "no cause". As time passed that unrestrained authority of the employer has been modified by various laws such as the Equal Employment opportunity Act and Public Policy restrictions.
Right to Work allows employees to chose to join a Union in the workplace or not. It prohibits a "closed shop".
I'm assuming that the write up was a Release. A document which protects the employer from any future action which could be taken by the ex-employee under the various laws. For example, an allegation of sex/age/national origin discrimination. The ex-employee has to be given an opportunity (usually 10 working days) to review the Release and/or discuss it with an attorney.
Since she signed the write up under duress, a case could be made that it was involuntary and therefore is invalid.
As far as using the former employer as a reference, she should be mindful of what will be provided to the inquiry. If the employer only provides dates of hire and responsibilities, there is no problem.
However, if they go beyond that and indicate that she was terminated without mentioning the reasons, or whwere the reason were not true, then your friend may have sufficient cause to pursue a civil case.
Having said all that, under the EEO guidelines your friend has 180 days to file a complaint. She could check with a the EEO to determine if there are special circumstances which would waive/extend the time limit.
In any case, I would suggest that she contact a labor lawyer for consultation.
Hope this helps
PALADIN
From United States,
the reason for her being termed was because her "co-workeers" the other 2 recruiters did not like the fact that she was being very innovative not only that she had other great qualifications such as she was Bilingual spanish and she was promoted to a recruiter from within in the company after only being in her prevouse role for only 6 mo so she was doing great stuff until she ended up in HR and had to deal with all the nonsense!!
My personal issue with this is that she is very talented she obvousely proved herself because she was promoted, so she demonstrated proven results and for them to do that to her was a slap in the face after she was very loyal to that company. Also because she was in a remote location, in other words her manager sat in another state and he didnt even bother to go personaly and investigate it.
From United States, New York
My personal issue with this is that she is very talented she obvousely proved herself because she was promoted, so she demonstrated proven results and for them to do that to her was a slap in the face after she was very loyal to that company. Also because she was in a remote location, in other words her manager sat in another state and he didnt even bother to go personaly and investigate it.
From United States, New York
Dear JPG & Paladin,
Pls reply my querry.
1) Suppose I am your boss of HR dept and very close to company MD or prominent person.
2) Mr A is very gud employee whose performance is excellent.
3) As HR head or boss, I am telling u to terminate the service of Mr A or otherwise I will terminate ur service with showing sufficient cause.
Now u reply, wat u will do???????
Regards
Sidheshwar
India
From India, Bangalore
Pls reply my querry.
1) Suppose I am your boss of HR dept and very close to company MD or prominent person.
2) Mr A is very gud employee whose performance is excellent.
3) As HR head or boss, I am telling u to terminate the service of Mr A or otherwise I will terminate ur service with showing sufficient cause.
Now u reply, wat u will do???????
Regards
Sidheshwar
India
From India, Bangalore
Dear Sidhu1972:
I have had the good fortune never to be associated with that type of boss. I'm sure they are out there, but they get discovered very quickly and are expelled from the organization (and hopefully the profession).
So, to address your hypotehical situation:
I would first review employee A's file to determine if there were any negative entries which would form the basis of any discipline up to and including termination. If I found none, I would document his accomplishments, accolades, and personal assessments.
Unless and until the boss can show some evidence of why employee A should be fired (reduction in force, major misconduct, failure to comply with lawful orders, and the like), aside from his obvious abuse of his (the boss') authority/power, I would refuse, but in a manner which would not be insubordinate. I would tell the boss, politiely, that if you want him/her terminated, do it yourself. "I choose not to".
If the boss reiterates his threat to terminate me:
First, I would point out that I am equal to or better in performance and people skills that employees A (and for that matter the boss himself). I would then inquire as to the nature of the "sufficient cause". In addition, I would inform him that his actions would place undue liability on the organization, since if he carried forward with his threat, I would sue for unjust termination, and since I am over 40 years of age would file a charge with the EEOC based on age discrimination. In both suits I would seek significant monetary penalties (compensatory as well as punitive). Finally, I would inform him that since he may place such liability on the organization, my duty and obligation to the organization leaves me no choice but to report his intention to the President of the Company.
If he did, in fact, terminate me, my next steps would be:
A. Document the meeting. Time, place, date, persons present and dialogue, as close as possible. Especially that part of the conversation where he fired me.
B. Assemble all relevant documention - The "minutes" of the meeting with the boss, a brief overview of Employee A's work record, an overview of my work record
C. Attempt to arrange a meeting with the President of the Company. If I have been ordered to leave the premises by the boss, I would send a letter to the President with all documents enclosed. (By Certified Mail, with return receipt requested.)
D. Contact a competant labor attorney to discuss possible next steps re: civil suit.
E. Go the nearest Equal Employment Office and file an age discrimination charge. (Other government agencies to file various allegations - OSHA= unsafe working conditions both physicall and environmentally; Wage and Hour= Failue to pay overtime; requesting employees to "donate" hours; etc.)
F. Contact TV and newspapers (reporters love this kind of story; the "little guy" v. the "deep pockets, unfeeling corporation") - Get the issue aired in the court of public opinion!!!
I believe that if enough pressure is brought to bear, the organization will realize that the boss acted in a manner which was not only unprofessional, but which could have the potential of damageing the company's reputation in the eyes of customers, and the public (who buys the product).
One person as opposed to millions in lost sales, court imposed fines, dissruption of the business, and lowered employee morale - that's what is called a "no brainer" - wat would u do???????????
PALADIN
From United States,
I have had the good fortune never to be associated with that type of boss. I'm sure they are out there, but they get discovered very quickly and are expelled from the organization (and hopefully the profession).
So, to address your hypotehical situation:
I would first review employee A's file to determine if there were any negative entries which would form the basis of any discipline up to and including termination. If I found none, I would document his accomplishments, accolades, and personal assessments.
Unless and until the boss can show some evidence of why employee A should be fired (reduction in force, major misconduct, failure to comply with lawful orders, and the like), aside from his obvious abuse of his (the boss') authority/power, I would refuse, but in a manner which would not be insubordinate. I would tell the boss, politiely, that if you want him/her terminated, do it yourself. "I choose not to".
If the boss reiterates his threat to terminate me:
First, I would point out that I am equal to or better in performance and people skills that employees A (and for that matter the boss himself). I would then inquire as to the nature of the "sufficient cause". In addition, I would inform him that his actions would place undue liability on the organization, since if he carried forward with his threat, I would sue for unjust termination, and since I am over 40 years of age would file a charge with the EEOC based on age discrimination. In both suits I would seek significant monetary penalties (compensatory as well as punitive). Finally, I would inform him that since he may place such liability on the organization, my duty and obligation to the organization leaves me no choice but to report his intention to the President of the Company.
If he did, in fact, terminate me, my next steps would be:
A. Document the meeting. Time, place, date, persons present and dialogue, as close as possible. Especially that part of the conversation where he fired me.
B. Assemble all relevant documention - The "minutes" of the meeting with the boss, a brief overview of Employee A's work record, an overview of my work record
C. Attempt to arrange a meeting with the President of the Company. If I have been ordered to leave the premises by the boss, I would send a letter to the President with all documents enclosed. (By Certified Mail, with return receipt requested.)
D. Contact a competant labor attorney to discuss possible next steps re: civil suit.
E. Go the nearest Equal Employment Office and file an age discrimination charge. (Other government agencies to file various allegations - OSHA= unsafe working conditions both physicall and environmentally; Wage and Hour= Failue to pay overtime; requesting employees to "donate" hours; etc.)
F. Contact TV and newspapers (reporters love this kind of story; the "little guy" v. the "deep pockets, unfeeling corporation") - Get the issue aired in the court of public opinion!!!
I believe that if enough pressure is brought to bear, the organization will realize that the boss acted in a manner which was not only unprofessional, but which could have the potential of damageing the company's reputation in the eyes of customers, and the public (who buys the product).
One person as opposed to millions in lost sales, court imposed fines, dissruption of the business, and lowered employee morale - that's what is called a "no brainer" - wat would u do???????????
PALADIN
From United States,
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