Dear All,
This is my first post on CiteHR. I am AM-HR in a new startup company, and I am facing many HR issues day by day. I request all of you to please help me find solutions to these issues.
Today, one employee shouted at me for his offer letter. He joined the company at the end of August 2012 as a technician. His behavior was not appropriate, and he was misguiding other technicians as well. As a result, the company terminated him without providing any type of offer letter. Now, he has started to visit the office daily and ask for an offer letter. I am very confused about what to do.
Although he has already been terminated by our company, he visited the office again today and shouted at me. Please suggest what I should do in this situation. Should I give him an offer letter since his tenure with the company was from August 25, 2012, to November 6, 2012?
I am waiting for a prompt reply.
From India, Delhi
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11This is my first post on CiteHR. I am AM-HR in a new startup company, and I am facing many HR issues day by day. I request all of you to please help me find solutions to these issues.
Today, one employee shouted at me for his offer letter. He joined the company at the end of August 2012 as a technician. His behavior was not appropriate, and he was misguiding other technicians as well. As a result, the company terminated him without providing any type of offer letter. Now, he has started to visit the office daily and ask for an offer letter. I am very confused about what to do.
Although he has already been terminated by our company, he visited the office again today and shouted at me. Please suggest what I should do in this situation. Should I give him an offer letter since his tenure with the company was from August 25, 2012, to November 6, 2012?
I am waiting for a prompt reply.
From India, Delhi
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Hi Mahima,
Welcome to CiteHR.com!
The job of an HR manager is full of stress, and one has to face numerous requests and demands from employees. Some vent out their feelings as HR is considered a representative of the management as well. So, keep your cool and don't feel too stressed out.
In this case, there is no question of an offer letter. However, you can issue an experience letter.
If you need any further clarification, feel free to ask.
Warm regards.
From India, Delhi
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Welcome to CiteHR.com!
The job of an HR manager is full of stress, and one has to face numerous requests and demands from employees. Some vent out their feelings as HR is considered a representative of the management as well. So, keep your cool and don't feel too stressed out.
In this case, there is no question of an offer letter. However, you can issue an experience letter.
If you need any further clarification, feel free to ask.
Warm regards.
From India, Delhi
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Dear Mahima Welcome to CiteHR.com !!! In this case there is no question of an Offer letter. However you can issue an experience letter to him. Warm regards.
From India, Ranchi
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From India, Ranchi
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(Fact Check Failed/Partial)-The user reply is incorrect. In this situation, the terminated employee has a right to receive an offer letter even after termination as it confirms the terms of employment. An experience letter alone may not suffice.
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Hello Mahima,
In continuation of your query above, there are 2 queries from my side:
1. Have you struck out his name from the Salary Register of that specific month, or is he still your employee for that period? Depending on your YES or NO, the answer can be different.
2. Otherwise, what is the procedure for issuing an OFFER letter and an APPOINTMENT letter in your company?
Generally, an offer letter is issued when we offer a position to a candidate, stating a specific date of joining with other relevant details. It serves as a confirmation/acknowledgment by the company to the employee regarding the offered position.
An appointment letter is usually issued ON THE DAY OF JOINING (in some start-up ventures, it is issued within 7 days).
It appears that your company has not issued either of the above documents to the employee.
Now, when the organization has already TERMINATED his employment within a short span, there are a few options available DEPENDING on MANAGEMENT's discretion:
1. Issue him a backdated offer letter and appointment letter.
2. Do not issue an appointment letter. Only issue the offer letter.
3. Do not issue an experience certificate as the candidate has been TERMINATED (assuming you have followed the termination procedure diligently).
If you have struck out the name, then inform him that he would not receive any documents from the company.
From India, Ahmedabad
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In continuation of your query above, there are 2 queries from my side:
1. Have you struck out his name from the Salary Register of that specific month, or is he still your employee for that period? Depending on your YES or NO, the answer can be different.
2. Otherwise, what is the procedure for issuing an OFFER letter and an APPOINTMENT letter in your company?
Generally, an offer letter is issued when we offer a position to a candidate, stating a specific date of joining with other relevant details. It serves as a confirmation/acknowledgment by the company to the employee regarding the offered position.
An appointment letter is usually issued ON THE DAY OF JOINING (in some start-up ventures, it is issued within 7 days).
It appears that your company has not issued either of the above documents to the employee.
Now, when the organization has already TERMINATED his employment within a short span, there are a few options available DEPENDING on MANAGEMENT's discretion:
1. Issue him a backdated offer letter and appointment letter.
2. Do not issue an appointment letter. Only issue the offer letter.
3. Do not issue an experience certificate as the candidate has been TERMINATED (assuming you have followed the termination procedure diligently).
If you have struck out the name, then inform him that he would not receive any documents from the company.
From India, Ahmedabad
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(Fact Check Failed/Partial)-The user's reply is generally accurate in terms of explaining the purpose of offer letters and appointment letters but lacks some crucial information regarding the legal aspects of issuing documents post-termination. The user should have emphasized the importance of following proper termination procedures and the implications of issuing backdated documents in this scenario. Additionally, the user should have highlighted that issuing backdated offer letters or appointment letters can lead to legal complications, especially if done to manipulate the termination process or mislead the employee, which could be seen as unfair labor practices. It would have been beneficial for the user to stress the importance of transparency, fairness, and compliance with labor laws, even in challenging situations like this one. Therefore, an amendment is needed to provide a more detailed and legally sound response. [response]
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Dear Rajkumar & Malay,
Is there anything wrong with giving an Offer Letter at this stage with the previous dates? My point is, since the company Mahima is working for is a startup, it might not have processes and procedures in place yet. An ex-employee who is allowed to shout at AM HR for the offer letter itself states the environment in this company. So, is there something wrong with Mahima giving an offer letter to this employee as an act to smoothen this process? Please correct me if I am wrong.
Dear Mahima,
If you have a situation where you have to give the offer letter to smoothen these issues, please ensure that the below clauses are included:
1. 6 months probation
2. Immediate termination for misconduct (during probation period).
Thanks!
From India, Bangalore
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Is there anything wrong with giving an Offer Letter at this stage with the previous dates? My point is, since the company Mahima is working for is a startup, it might not have processes and procedures in place yet. An ex-employee who is allowed to shout at AM HR for the offer letter itself states the environment in this company. So, is there something wrong with Mahima giving an offer letter to this employee as an act to smoothen this process? Please correct me if I am wrong.
Dear Mahima,
If you have a situation where you have to give the offer letter to smoothen these issues, please ensure that the below clauses are included:
1. 6 months probation
2. Immediate termination for misconduct (during probation period).
Thanks!
From India, Bangalore
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(Fact Check Failed/Partial)-The user reply is incorrect. It is essential to understand that providing an offer letter retrospectively with false dates can lead to legal implications. It is crucial to follow legal procedures and not fabricate documents.
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Hi Mahima,
An offer letter is issued to a candidate before joining, so there is no point in entertaining his request for an offer letter. Additionally, if necessary, you can provide an experience letter to avoid any issues.
Thank you.
From India, Mumbai
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An offer letter is issued to a candidate before joining, so there is no point in entertaining his request for an offer letter. Additionally, if necessary, you can provide an experience letter to avoid any issues.
Thank you.
From India, Mumbai
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(Fact Check Failed/Partial)-The user reply is incorrect. An offer letter is typically provided before an employee joins a company, but the terminated employee is requesting it post-termination. Providing an experience letter could be a more suitable option.
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First of all, please let the contributing members know the following:
1) Does your company come under the Factories Act or the Shops & Establishment Act?
2) How big is your company in terms of employee strength?
3) Are the employees included in your statutory records or not?
From India, Ahmadabad
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1) Does your company come under the Factories Act or the Shops & Establishment Act?
2) How big is your company in terms of employee strength?
3) Are the employees included in your statutory records or not?
From India, Ahmadabad
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(Fact Check Failed/Partial)-The user reply is incorrect. The information provided is not directly relevant to the situation described in the original post.
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Dear Alwin,
I like your question and your spirit of enquiry!
It gives me an opportunity to explain and clarify the doubts that others may also be having.
See, there are no unique solutions to the problem posed. However, we should endeavor to prescribe a solution that is legally compliant, ETHICAL, as per the norms of HRM/Personnel management, etc.
Hope you'll agree on these.
Now, as you say, one solution can be issuing an Offer Letter and getting over with this nagging problem.
But consider these facts:
As of date, the employee's services stand terminated.
Issuing an offer at this stage would amount to issuing a BACK-DATED letter. This is not considered good or proper in law. Moreover, no ethical manager would agree to sign such a back-dated document.
If the matter goes to Court, the signing person must admit that he has signed a backdated order, and this would be a matter of great embarrassment for a company. Any false statement to the contrary, in court would amount to perjury and is punishable.
Whereas, there is absolutely no problem in issuing an Experience letter, which is customary and also a legal requirement in certain cases.
Hope you'll find the above explanation adequate and satisfactory.
It's always advisable to give well-thought-out and considered opinions in such a professional forum, and I expect all members to do so, rather than give off-the-cuff, casual opinions.
Do keep contributing.
Warm regards,
Raj Kumar
From India, Delhi
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I like your question and your spirit of enquiry!
It gives me an opportunity to explain and clarify the doubts that others may also be having.
See, there are no unique solutions to the problem posed. However, we should endeavor to prescribe a solution that is legally compliant, ETHICAL, as per the norms of HRM/Personnel management, etc.
Hope you'll agree on these.
Now, as you say, one solution can be issuing an Offer Letter and getting over with this nagging problem.
But consider these facts:
As of date, the employee's services stand terminated.
Issuing an offer at this stage would amount to issuing a BACK-DATED letter. This is not considered good or proper in law. Moreover, no ethical manager would agree to sign such a back-dated document.
If the matter goes to Court, the signing person must admit that he has signed a backdated order, and this would be a matter of great embarrassment for a company. Any false statement to the contrary, in court would amount to perjury and is punishable.
Whereas, there is absolutely no problem in issuing an Experience letter, which is customary and also a legal requirement in certain cases.
Hope you'll find the above explanation adequate and satisfactory.
It's always advisable to give well-thought-out and considered opinions in such a professional forum, and I expect all members to do so, rather than give off-the-cuff, casual opinions.
Do keep contributing.
Warm regards,
Raj Kumar
From India, Delhi
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(Fact Check Failed/Partial)-The user's reply contains incorrect information. Issuing a back-dated offer letter is not advisable due to legal and ethical implications. Instead, providing an experience letter is recommended.
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Dear Mahima,
Was this employee issued a termination letter so far, or was it only oral termination?
If a termination letter was issued, then you may issue a SERVICE CERTIFICATE indicating the date of joining and the date of termination.
I doubt whether the proper procedure was followed while terminating the employee, since yours is a startup company. If you had not issued a termination letter, please do not issue a SERVICE CERTIFICATE also, lest it will land you in legal problems, as there is every likelihood that the terminated employee may approach the labor department and ask for reinstatement. In the absence of inquiry proceedings, you will be ordered to reinstate him with back wages.
Thus, even if it is difficult, convince your management to follow the legal procedure before terminating any employee, including this one.
Normally, in private companies, we call the employee and ask him to submit his resignation in cases where termination is warranted, and we will settle his dues, including severance pay if any.
Be bold and face the problem. When compared to other professionals, we are working with human beings and their behavior. TRANSPARENCY AND TRUST BUILDING shall be buzzwords for our profession. Employees shall treat us as their Helper & Well-wisher.
Regards,
Haragopal
GM-HR
SOLAR SEMICONDUCTOR PVT LTD.,
HYDERABAD
From India, Hyderabad
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Was this employee issued a termination letter so far, or was it only oral termination?
If a termination letter was issued, then you may issue a SERVICE CERTIFICATE indicating the date of joining and the date of termination.
I doubt whether the proper procedure was followed while terminating the employee, since yours is a startup company. If you had not issued a termination letter, please do not issue a SERVICE CERTIFICATE also, lest it will land you in legal problems, as there is every likelihood that the terminated employee may approach the labor department and ask for reinstatement. In the absence of inquiry proceedings, you will be ordered to reinstate him with back wages.
Thus, even if it is difficult, convince your management to follow the legal procedure before terminating any employee, including this one.
Normally, in private companies, we call the employee and ask him to submit his resignation in cases where termination is warranted, and we will settle his dues, including severance pay if any.
Be bold and face the problem. When compared to other professionals, we are working with human beings and their behavior. TRANSPARENCY AND TRUST BUILDING shall be buzzwords for our profession. Employees shall treat us as their Helper & Well-wisher.
Regards,
Haragopal
GM-HR
SOLAR SEMICONDUCTOR PVT LTD.,
HYDERABAD
From India, Hyderabad
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(Fact Check Failed/Partial)-The user's reply contains some inaccuracies. Termination without a formal offer letter is legally risky. Termination should follow due process to avoid legal repercussions.
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Dear Mahima,
Welcome and all the best.
Coming to your problem - many employers adopt the practice of not issuing any formal offer or appointment letter and ask those selected to join, then request them to leave for various reasons (unethical). Unfortunately, this practice persists even in well-established companies/employers. It is sad, but it does not mean you should follow suit. You mentioned that he was issued marching orders or some form of termination. Let me ask you, no offer letter was issued - correct? Was he issued any termination letter? I presume you did not, in which case, I would say there was no offer letter now as well. There could be no question of giving an offer letter "ex-post facto" after he was "terminated" by some method. He is trying to obtain some documents supporting his service in your firm. He is right, and your past actions are wrong.
How to solve your problem? Well, nobody can cover up having employed him because you could have paid his salary for August, September, October but not November, perhaps through a bank account credit. In these circumstances, you could only treat him as a "trainee" and not as a regular employee. In this case, maintain the stance that your company has no practice of providing "offer" or "appointment" letters to trainees, and he was only paid a stipend during training. Finally, he was marked absent for the days he was not taken to the job, and he is no longer on the rolls (unfair labor practices, my friend). Do not worry if he shouts at you; it is the job of your security to handle it. It is a matter of maintaining law and order within the premises.
I'm sorry I understand what should have been done by your firm and what has been done and what is possible. I can't help much more. Do not worry; have courage, pal.
Kumar S.
From India, Bangalore
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Welcome and all the best.
Coming to your problem - many employers adopt the practice of not issuing any formal offer or appointment letter and ask those selected to join, then request them to leave for various reasons (unethical). Unfortunately, this practice persists even in well-established companies/employers. It is sad, but it does not mean you should follow suit. You mentioned that he was issued marching orders or some form of termination. Let me ask you, no offer letter was issued - correct? Was he issued any termination letter? I presume you did not, in which case, I would say there was no offer letter now as well. There could be no question of giving an offer letter "ex-post facto" after he was "terminated" by some method. He is trying to obtain some documents supporting his service in your firm. He is right, and your past actions are wrong.
How to solve your problem? Well, nobody can cover up having employed him because you could have paid his salary for August, September, October but not November, perhaps through a bank account credit. In these circumstances, you could only treat him as a "trainee" and not as a regular employee. In this case, maintain the stance that your company has no practice of providing "offer" or "appointment" letters to trainees, and he was only paid a stipend during training. Finally, he was marked absent for the days he was not taken to the job, and he is no longer on the rolls (unfair labor practices, my friend). Do not worry if he shouts at you; it is the job of your security to handle it. It is a matter of maintaining law and order within the premises.
I'm sorry I understand what should have been done by your firm and what has been done and what is possible. I can't help much more. Do not worry; have courage, pal.
Kumar S.
From India, Bangalore
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(Fact Check Failed/Partial)-The user reply contains inaccuracies regarding the issuance of offer letters, termination procedures, and the treatment of employees. It is important to adhere to legal standards in such situations.
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(Fact Check Failed/Partial)-The user reply is incorrect based on labor laws. In this situation, the terminated employee is entitled to an offer letter as proof of his employment. It is important to provide the employee with the necessary documentation despite the termination.