Dear Colleagues,
A friend of mine aged 45 and looking for a job came across this question in his first round telephonic interview: "What is your age?" He replied 45, the interviewer said, "We are looking to hire someone <30 years of age. Our management feels senior people cannot co-exist in harmony with our team where the average age is 30. Though you meet our requirements we are sorry, we can't hire you".
My friend, though was skilled and knowledgeable was even willing to settle for a profile much less than his previous achievements. I sympathized with him, immediately many questions came on top of my mind.
1. Is it wrong to be 45+ and looking for a job?
2. Is this the current recruitment trend or the HR mindset in our India?
3. If a person aged 40+ gets loses his job for say whatever right reasons, is it difficult to get a job in the current market?
4. Do we have a policy to stop aged based discrimination?
5. What do recruiters (Less than 35 years of age) feel about a candidate who is aged 45+ and making a job inquiry?
Age goes up and never comes down for all of us. Any suggestions please on how to address this problem? I hope this discussion will benefit all job seekers aged 40+.
Thanks in advance,
Best Regards all,
Sundar
From India, Indore
5A friend of mine aged 45 and looking for a job came across this question in his first round telephonic interview: "What is your age?" He replied 45, the interviewer said, "We are looking to hire someone <30 years of age. Our management feels senior people cannot co-exist in harmony with our team where the average age is 30. Though you meet our requirements we are sorry, we can't hire you".
My friend, though was skilled and knowledgeable was even willing to settle for a profile much less than his previous achievements. I sympathized with him, immediately many questions came on top of my mind.
1. Is it wrong to be 45+ and looking for a job?
2. Is this the current recruitment trend or the HR mindset in our India?
3. If a person aged 40+ gets loses his job for say whatever right reasons, is it difficult to get a job in the current market?
4. Do we have a policy to stop aged based discrimination?
5. What do recruiters (Less than 35 years of age) feel about a candidate who is aged 45+ and making a job inquiry?
Age goes up and never comes down for all of us. Any suggestions please on how to address this problem? I hope this discussion will benefit all job seekers aged 40+.
Thanks in advance,
Best Regards all,
Sundar
From India, Indore
Hi dear some organisations are like this only, you dont have any choice dear, some write only girls for PA / Secretary post that is gender discrimination some ask are you married or not? and what interviewer said is truth senior people cant coexist in harmony with people of <30 years because not all senior people are flexible and some are of old mindset which hampers the working of organisation. I have worked with such 60+ senior people who think whatever they tell is correct also since i work in government here they have typical mindset that experienced person has more knowledge they wont take a knowledgeable 25 year old guy but take some 10yr experienced but nil thinking 35 yr old person. who is not tech savy . So obviously somewhere someone is loosing out,,,
so instead of asking your friend to be sad ask him to work to search more if there are organisations looking to hire people <30 there are also organisations (like govt, etc) who feel about > 40 means higher post and pay, so you have to wait until ur friends resume clicks with organisation.
YOu are having 3 lakhs rupees and you walk into mercedes showroom to buy merc means no one will give you, you have to go to only maruti showroom and buy maruti 800 car so like this search for correct showroom i.e organisation..
Here my intention is not to hurt anybody but when it comes to generalization people generalize that people over 40 are stubborn not flexible not much tech savy, just like everyone generalize government servants dont have any work, i tell you come to my office and see my work. But i have also seen people over 40 being damm active and updated with latest tech in their field of expertise.
So nothing to worry , this might be a setback for your friend since at this age he lost his job, one advice just keep trying.. till it clickss..
now for rapid question round
1. Is it wrong to be 45+ and looking for a job?
NO
2. Is this the current recruitment trend or the HR mindset in our India?
SAD BUT TRUE YES, but those HR will surely realize when they become over 45 actually lots of bad things happen in industry, some HR select only girls, some select unmarried, some only boys etc, where where and what what illegal things happens who cares,
3. If a person aged 40+ gets loses his job for say whatever right reasons, is it difficult to get a job in the current market?
(both yes and no, depends on field, industry, experience, etc etc )
4. Do we have a policy to stop aged based discrimination?
SADLY NO
once even i refused an aunty (above 40) who had applied for the post of secretary to director in our office, but she herself understood and she first on phone itself asked if age limit is there i told we need young girl with two wheeler, and should be quick and hardworking have two wheeler, being in metro travelling is tough u know, and no commitment , since we had earlier experience with another aunty they have family (kids) and want to go soon take leave leave indulge in unnecessary chat, speak stories about their experience which none of us is interested to know, give some crap reason, cant work overtime not at all conversant with computers, dont even know how to take printout, OMG what not.
5. What do recruiters (Less than 35 years of age) feel about a candidate who is aged 45+ and making a job inquiry?
(seriously if in the JD its mentioned that min X yrs of exp is required then i need not feel anything, this is purely a case based question dear.
Assume i have a JD which tells Exp: 10 yrs after BE so BE is done at 23 + 10 = 33 or 35 or 37 years is ideal age for the post. Now if someone aged 45 makes enquiry or asks about it i will just cross verify with my requirement and give answer..... So what i finally tell ask your friend to enquire in organizations which are suitable and who are looking for 45+ aged persons for senior posts. Going into the wrong house and asking what happened to my furniture will not help.
So as per my calculation instead of blaming the interviewer ask your friend to try out more options rather than keep in heart some thing which someone told whom your friend have never seen in life.. i.e just one telephoneeeeee..
From India, Madras
so instead of asking your friend to be sad ask him to work to search more if there are organisations looking to hire people <30 there are also organisations (like govt, etc) who feel about > 40 means higher post and pay, so you have to wait until ur friends resume clicks with organisation.
YOu are having 3 lakhs rupees and you walk into mercedes showroom to buy merc means no one will give you, you have to go to only maruti showroom and buy maruti 800 car so like this search for correct showroom i.e organisation..
Here my intention is not to hurt anybody but when it comes to generalization people generalize that people over 40 are stubborn not flexible not much tech savy, just like everyone generalize government servants dont have any work, i tell you come to my office and see my work. But i have also seen people over 40 being damm active and updated with latest tech in their field of expertise.
So nothing to worry , this might be a setback for your friend since at this age he lost his job, one advice just keep trying.. till it clickss..
now for rapid question round
1. Is it wrong to be 45+ and looking for a job?
NO
2. Is this the current recruitment trend or the HR mindset in our India?
SAD BUT TRUE YES, but those HR will surely realize when they become over 45 actually lots of bad things happen in industry, some HR select only girls, some select unmarried, some only boys etc, where where and what what illegal things happens who cares,
3. If a person aged 40+ gets loses his job for say whatever right reasons, is it difficult to get a job in the current market?
(both yes and no, depends on field, industry, experience, etc etc )
4. Do we have a policy to stop aged based discrimination?
SADLY NO
once even i refused an aunty (above 40) who had applied for the post of secretary to director in our office, but she herself understood and she first on phone itself asked if age limit is there i told we need young girl with two wheeler, and should be quick and hardworking have two wheeler, being in metro travelling is tough u know, and no commitment , since we had earlier experience with another aunty they have family (kids) and want to go soon take leave leave indulge in unnecessary chat, speak stories about their experience which none of us is interested to know, give some crap reason, cant work overtime not at all conversant with computers, dont even know how to take printout, OMG what not.
5. What do recruiters (Less than 35 years of age) feel about a candidate who is aged 45+ and making a job inquiry?
(seriously if in the JD its mentioned that min X yrs of exp is required then i need not feel anything, this is purely a case based question dear.
Assume i have a JD which tells Exp: 10 yrs after BE so BE is done at 23 + 10 = 33 or 35 or 37 years is ideal age for the post. Now if someone aged 45 makes enquiry or asks about it i will just cross verify with my requirement and give answer..... So what i finally tell ask your friend to enquire in organizations which are suitable and who are looking for 45+ aged persons for senior posts. Going into the wrong house and asking what happened to my furniture will not help.
So as per my calculation instead of blaming the interviewer ask your friend to try out more options rather than keep in heart some thing which someone told whom your friend have never seen in life.. i.e just one telephoneeeeee..
From India, Madras
Unfortunately in India, there is a clear bias against middle aged people during the recruitment process of many organisations. It is stupidly percieved by many ,that middle aged people are not flexible. On the contrary I feel that 40 + people are more stable, more dedicated and above all more sensible. Experience teaches us what no business school ever can. As far as fitness is concerned, I have seen many 40+ men and women who are leaner and more fitter than the younger lot.
It is time the HR personnel in our country get rid of their biases and start recruting, based on merit, without discriminating against elderly people.
From India, Calcutta
It is time the HR personnel in our country get rid of their biases and start recruting, based on merit, without discriminating against elderly people.
From India, Calcutta
Dear KRavi,
Thanks for your response and inputs. My friend is not blaming that HR person who refused job but I did not like the attitude of this company and response of this recruiter. This prompted me to start this post.
Really sad to note we don't have a country policy to prevent discrimination based on age. I feel we need one for the benefit of the right fit people who are passed away just because they are 40+. Even in our office we have people 50+ who are more efficient, innovative, agile and more tech savvy than millienials.
I could not get your conclusion properly, do you feel this practice can continue? Do you wish to suggest some methods or practices by which job seekers 40+ can feel they were given a fair chance?
Do you feel all this talk on diversity at workplace, EOE are just lip service and HR people keep saying this again and again just because they have a line printed in their policy?
Thanks again for your inputs,
Warm Regards,
From India, Indore
Thanks for your response and inputs. My friend is not blaming that HR person who refused job but I did not like the attitude of this company and response of this recruiter. This prompted me to start this post.
Really sad to note we don't have a country policy to prevent discrimination based on age. I feel we need one for the benefit of the right fit people who are passed away just because they are 40+. Even in our office we have people 50+ who are more efficient, innovative, agile and more tech savvy than millienials.
I could not get your conclusion properly, do you feel this practice can continue? Do you wish to suggest some methods or practices by which job seekers 40+ can feel they were given a fair chance?
Do you feel all this talk on diversity at workplace, EOE are just lip service and HR people keep saying this again and again just because they have a line printed in their policy?
Thanks again for your inputs,
Warm Regards,
From India, Indore
Dear Kaushik,
Many thanks for your response. You are right, perceptions and assumptions can be really deceiving. Also, probability theory says assumptions can go wrong every time. I agree HR must hire people based on merit and this is being practiced by every HR manager who focuses on improving overall value for his company.
What in your opinion, what would you suggest for a senior job seeker to avoid getting discriminated on age at the time of interview?
I look forward to more inputs and similar experiences.
Warm Regards,
Sundar
From India, Indore
Many thanks for your response. You are right, perceptions and assumptions can be really deceiving. Also, probability theory says assumptions can go wrong every time. I agree HR must hire people based on merit and this is being practiced by every HR manager who focuses on improving overall value for his company.
What in your opinion, what would you suggest for a senior job seeker to avoid getting discriminated on age at the time of interview?
I look forward to more inputs and similar experiences.
Warm Regards,
Sundar
From India, Indore
No rules can be properly implemented and followed in india, this is the main problem, And if you have worked in HR you can see that HR is 99% paper work and 1% real work, all policies are just good on paper to be true and just documented other HR s will now go against me , but this is truth. Now one more thing i want to make it clear HR follow some policy of not telling the truth like telling some sweet reason, i have been to many many interviews in past and all the HR tells is we will get back to you later. Now i dont realize why they cant tell that i am not suitable.
Also i dont agree with your point to make a company compulsarily take a 40+ aged person if they dont require. I hope you did not get my conclusion correctly, I am telling there are also companies who prefer to take above 40 plus people you can ask your friend to try there, if a company has a policy of taking below 30 age employees there should not be any compulsion to the company to take above 30 employees. Because I have observed in some IT cos, below 30 employees work for long long hours staring at computer screen which might be impossible for above 40, anyways it is left to company to decide what they want. Coming to the point of age even if you see PSU organisations or some IT Cos while recruiting sometimes they mention only 2010 passouts BE required, now if I am an 2009 passout i can also argue that why i am not being given fair chance after all i am just one year older than requirement. So from my point no law can be created to make companies compulsarily to accept a specific age, gender post. Every post depends on company to company and their needs. Hope you too understand what i am trying to convey. Like now you may not find any difference between working of 50 yr and 25 yr old but that company might know.
Since your friend came across this situation you are concerned about this point only. But lots of point are there which i know and nothing can be done already mentioned like only females, only 2010 yr passouts, etc
Why only females for some post? numerous posts in citehr for jobs mention only females
<link outdated-removed>
From India, Madras
Also i dont agree with your point to make a company compulsarily take a 40+ aged person if they dont require. I hope you did not get my conclusion correctly, I am telling there are also companies who prefer to take above 40 plus people you can ask your friend to try there, if a company has a policy of taking below 30 age employees there should not be any compulsion to the company to take above 30 employees. Because I have observed in some IT cos, below 30 employees work for long long hours staring at computer screen which might be impossible for above 40, anyways it is left to company to decide what they want. Coming to the point of age even if you see PSU organisations or some IT Cos while recruiting sometimes they mention only 2010 passouts BE required, now if I am an 2009 passout i can also argue that why i am not being given fair chance after all i am just one year older than requirement. So from my point no law can be created to make companies compulsarily to accept a specific age, gender post. Every post depends on company to company and their needs. Hope you too understand what i am trying to convey. Like now you may not find any difference between working of 50 yr and 25 yr old but that company might know.
Since your friend came across this situation you are concerned about this point only. But lots of point are there which i know and nothing can be done already mentioned like only females, only 2010 yr passouts, etc
Why only females for some post? numerous posts in citehr for jobs mention only females
<link outdated-removed>
From India, Madras
It is very important for senior job seekers to be physically fit that adds to mental agility. A smart appearence does go a long way in negating a lot of presumtions associated with senior people.
Most important of all, HR professionals need to change their thought process and treat everyone at par irrespective of their age. If a particular job requires 10 years of experience, it should not debarr people having 20+ years of experience as they too fit the bill, logically speaking. Having a preset mind and asuming that a 40+ person would not be able to put in long hours and look at the computer screen for long hours amounts to predeterminism of the worst kind.
From India, Calcutta
Most important of all, HR professionals need to change their thought process and treat everyone at par irrespective of their age. If a particular job requires 10 years of experience, it should not debarr people having 20+ years of experience as they too fit the bill, logically speaking. Having a preset mind and asuming that a 40+ person would not be able to put in long hours and look at the computer screen for long hours amounts to predeterminism of the worst kind.
From India, Calcutta
Thanks for your replies.
I am still wondering how can a job seeker 40+ can prepare himself better to face recruiters who are <30 years of age.
One thought comes quickly, I am putting it as a dialogue.
Recruiter <30: Sir, your experience exceeds our requirement, so we feel you are over-qualified. We are looking to hire someone in their mid-20s.
Job seeker 40+: I agree with you, I am over-qualified. I was always looking to work with your company because of your credibility, learning and growth opportunities that you provide,...blah, blah. Further I have these skills as per your requirement I am invited for this interview. My skills combines with my experience, provides me the advantage to take the role of mentor for the youngsters and new entrants in the company. With my skills and experience you can be sure I will bring more effectiveness in whatever tasks I take up. Also, if you see I am an avid user of social media tools and got my profile in many networking sites. You can always look up my profile, and I am sure you will obtain feedback about me from the people I am connected with. Also I see, in working with youngsters will certainly provide me new opportunities, learn new tools, new skills. I see age is just a number which will not be a barrier for a person who has a zeal to learn and perform better, always.
If you see above there are 2 things for a job seeker 40+ has to learn in the current context:
1. Negotiation skills and positive attitude. (The perception by the younger recruiter is nullified). Normally this is required for 40+ job seeker since they are still in the 80s where recruiters look at their CVs and invite them in, sometimes even without a discussion.
2. Job seekers who are 40+ needs to get along with the current trends and adapt quickly to technology instead of shying away from having their profiles in professional networks and having connections. I know a couple of friends got job through Linkedin quickly.
So, my dear friends, I am looking for some information like this. There could be more lessons to be learnt by 40+ job seekers in the current market. Request you to please share your thoughts.
Thanks again for your replies.
Regards all,
From India, Indore
I am still wondering how can a job seeker 40+ can prepare himself better to face recruiters who are <30 years of age.
One thought comes quickly, I am putting it as a dialogue.
Recruiter <30: Sir, your experience exceeds our requirement, so we feel you are over-qualified. We are looking to hire someone in their mid-20s.
Job seeker 40+: I agree with you, I am over-qualified. I was always looking to work with your company because of your credibility, learning and growth opportunities that you provide,...blah, blah. Further I have these skills as per your requirement I am invited for this interview. My skills combines with my experience, provides me the advantage to take the role of mentor for the youngsters and new entrants in the company. With my skills and experience you can be sure I will bring more effectiveness in whatever tasks I take up. Also, if you see I am an avid user of social media tools and got my profile in many networking sites. You can always look up my profile, and I am sure you will obtain feedback about me from the people I am connected with. Also I see, in working with youngsters will certainly provide me new opportunities, learn new tools, new skills. I see age is just a number which will not be a barrier for a person who has a zeal to learn and perform better, always.
If you see above there are 2 things for a job seeker 40+ has to learn in the current context:
1. Negotiation skills and positive attitude. (The perception by the younger recruiter is nullified). Normally this is required for 40+ job seeker since they are still in the 80s where recruiters look at their CVs and invite them in, sometimes even without a discussion.
2. Job seekers who are 40+ needs to get along with the current trends and adapt quickly to technology instead of shying away from having their profiles in professional networks and having connections. I know a couple of friends got job through Linkedin quickly.
So, my dear friends, I am looking for some information like this. There could be more lessons to be learnt by 40+ job seekers in the current market. Request you to please share your thoughts.
Thanks again for your replies.
Regards all,
From India, Indore
well one advice from my side dont ask your friend to attend the regular walkins, by consultancy or even company, i had just received call from one company and for some post i enquired about more in formation and she told she will sms me, i did not even confirm her my acceptance for internview and i got sms about company website and basic walkin details (time between 10-5, venue, and i should carry resume with photo n original docs etc) now if this was really a fixed interview i should be given fixed time and not just asked to carry all photo n original docs in first instance itself. I have been to some really decent companies in the past who really treat interviewees like gems, especially manufacturing companies, its only in IT they call 1000 people and ultimately 800 turn up between 10 -5 so in my case i misunderstood that it was a proper shortlisted resume, my interview lasted 2 mins the recruiter told that i dont have that skill set which i really didnt have,, but then why was i shortlisted and callled for interview, this is all game of consultant and recruiters, they want maximum people to attend and then they will shortlist on spot, they should actually do strict study of our resume and see whether we fit the role or not then only call us for interview.
From India, Madras
From India, Madras
Thanks Ravi,
Some lessons I can understand for 40+ job seekers from your reply is:
Do not attend any interview on just a call when you are sure you don't have the proper skill set.
Insist on a JD (many organizations provide one). Match your skill sets and accomplishments to be in sync with the JD.
Many HR people spend very less time in looking at CVs. I can say the initial 10 seconds or so will make make it for you, or the CV gets trashed. The beginning lines in the CV have to highlight the key achievements instead of a traditional bio-data.
Customize the CV every time when applying for a position, instead of sending the same general CV for all the posts. Those days are gone.
The above may seem trivial but it matters a lot in getting short-listed and getting a job.
Thanks again,
Regards,
Sundar
From India, Indore
Some lessons I can understand for 40+ job seekers from your reply is:
Do not attend any interview on just a call when you are sure you don't have the proper skill set.
Insist on a JD (many organizations provide one). Match your skill sets and accomplishments to be in sync with the JD.
Many HR people spend very less time in looking at CVs. I can say the initial 10 seconds or so will make make it for you, or the CV gets trashed. The beginning lines in the CV have to highlight the key achievements instead of a traditional bio-data.
Customize the CV every time when applying for a position, instead of sending the same general CV for all the posts. Those days are gone.
The above may seem trivial but it matters a lot in getting short-listed and getting a job.
Thanks again,
Regards,
Sundar
From India, Indore
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Age.xls
Sample Competency Based Interview Questions.doc