Dear Saswata,
I take reference of your post on telling the employee to replace the laptop if it is lost by employee.
When employee loses laptop, there are two types of losses one is the company's fixed asset and another is information contained in the asset was also lost. However, telling employee to replace the laptop would mean recovering higher value than what is shown in the company's books of account. This is unethical.
For this company can conduct domestic enquiry and impose two punishments. One is the recovery based on depreciated value and another punishment for loss of data.
The best thing is to ensure that employee or manager fills properly designed loan card while allotting the company's asset. In the loan card date of purchase of asset and value of the asset can be mentioned to bring the transparency.
Dinesh V Divekar
From India, Bangalore
7883I take reference of your post on telling the employee to replace the laptop if it is lost by employee.
When employee loses laptop, there are two types of losses one is the company's fixed asset and another is information contained in the asset was also lost. However, telling employee to replace the laptop would mean recovering higher value than what is shown in the company's books of account. This is unethical.
For this company can conduct domestic enquiry and impose two punishments. One is the recovery based on depreciated value and another punishment for loss of data.
The best thing is to ensure that employee or manager fills properly designed loan card while allotting the company's asset. In the loan card date of purchase of asset and value of the asset can be mentioned to bring the transparency.
Dinesh V Divekar
From India, Bangalore
Greetings to all,
I agree with Mr Dinesh, to replace the laptop wont be ethical. Also the cost of it in terms of money and as per the present value after applicable depreciation of an assent, wont be more then 75,000/-, therefore, i would say that it is really good for your friend that the Management has decided recover value of lost laptop with Rs. 65,000/-
As per general procedure that we adopt in this kind of case, we charge the amount based on booked value of the laptop after allowing depreciation of 15% per annum (15x3) and 5% (5x3) for maintenance is less than Rs.75000 (60% of actual value at the buying price of an asset) can be treated an appropriate and applicable value.
Regarding the suggestion for loan card, is also good but I doubt and wanna ask few question to you all
-Can this suggestion be included under the “IT and Asset” policy?
-Loan card for allowing company asset, would it be an effective step or the solution to prevent and deal with this kind of cases.
After all valuable responses with respect to the knowledge and experience of members, one more thing I would like buy that that your friend is lucky because company has not lodge any police complain/FIR in this regard, but that they just have decided to charge the amount of Rs. 65,000/- because the data and information they have lost with this laptop, can be used by many ways which wont be acceptable and is a another big concern.
From India, Gurgaon
I agree with Mr Dinesh, to replace the laptop wont be ethical. Also the cost of it in terms of money and as per the present value after applicable depreciation of an assent, wont be more then 75,000/-, therefore, i would say that it is really good for your friend that the Management has decided recover value of lost laptop with Rs. 65,000/-
As per general procedure that we adopt in this kind of case, we charge the amount based on booked value of the laptop after allowing depreciation of 15% per annum (15x3) and 5% (5x3) for maintenance is less than Rs.75000 (60% of actual value at the buying price of an asset) can be treated an appropriate and applicable value.
Regarding the suggestion for loan card, is also good but I doubt and wanna ask few question to you all
-Can this suggestion be included under the “IT and Asset” policy?
-Loan card for allowing company asset, would it be an effective step or the solution to prevent and deal with this kind of cases.
After all valuable responses with respect to the knowledge and experience of members, one more thing I would like buy that that your friend is lucky because company has not lodge any police complain/FIR in this regard, but that they just have decided to charge the amount of Rs. 65,000/- because the data and information they have lost with this laptop, can be used by many ways which wont be acceptable and is a another big concern.
From India, Gurgaon
Anil, Dinesh
From the company's point of view, what is important is not the depreciated value but the fact they have to buy a new laptop which was not needed or budgeted for. That they will get a better one than bought a year back is also incidental. It's a loss for the company to have spent even that much
Most companies I know do their insurance on replacement cost for the same reason
So no, it's not unethical for the company to charge to the employee higher than book value. It would make the employee more careful hopefully
Most large and organized companies already keep asset trackers and get signature on registers for laptops allotted. Or they have mail confirmation. Larger companies have a requisition system to be made by the employee approved by the concerned manager
From India, Mumbai
From the company's point of view, what is important is not the depreciated value but the fact they have to buy a new laptop which was not needed or budgeted for. That they will get a better one than bought a year back is also incidental. It's a loss for the company to have spent even that much
Most companies I know do their insurance on replacement cost for the same reason
So no, it's not unethical for the company to charge to the employee higher than book value. It would make the employee more careful hopefully
Most large and organized companies already keep asset trackers and get signature on registers for laptops allotted. Or they have mail confirmation. Larger companies have a requisition system to be made by the employee approved by the concerned manager
From India, Mumbai
Hi, Saswata Banerjee,
Thanks for your response and I respect and buy your point of you but If you forget dear, then let me remind you that there is still no information shared by S. Vinoth Kumar (Thread owner) like Management asked for a new laptop to recover this loose but asked for repayment, therefore, now I request S. Vinoth Kumar to make it clear to us.
Now before going further, I would like to ask few questions:
-Who defines the terms and conditions or responsible for the formation of policies?
-Who is directly responsible for allotment of any asset to any employee?
-Who recommends this need/requirement of using laptops and to whom?
-Who regulates this procedure, fulfill this requirement and responsible for maintaining a record of allotment and
-Who is responsible for all work said above… in short which DEPARTMENT?
Lastly
-Suppose, you have allotted a laptop by your employer three years ago which is now needs to be repaired soon, what you gonna do, would you ask this to get repaired by your company /department/ employer or gonna bear the expenses of it by your own?
Laptop has lost mistakenly and the respective management can just inquired about this mistake, can lodge a “Missing/Lost Asset” complaint to police which is required/necessary for security reasons (to prevent for wrong usage of it as per rule of cyber and other social security laws) but can’t claim that employee has done it consciously without any proof or firm evidence. And if it is done by a mistake, employer has no right to ask employee to return a new laptop in replacement which is common thing and understandable. And I don’t think anyone (employer) have done like this.
And, if any employer (available at this community) has ever asked for a new laptop/any asset in replacement of lost/misplaced of any asset by any employee and having policy with any such terms & conditions, shall be obliged to know more about it. I am eager to know from all Employers (Members) available here please.
Also, to return a new laptop against old laptop won’t be a professional, ethical or practical decision.
Lets buys your point dear, if management decides to recover laptop in replacement of a lost laptop, do you have any idea how much cost of a new laptop would be today, with the same configuration and would it be acceptable to the Management.
One more thing I would like to add, your point is valid that Management always seeks for benefits, and I hope now you gonna have a clear idea which is more beneficial to Management.
Let’s not stretch it further, and accept that on practical terms, management won’t go for new laptop but for repayment and MR VINOTH, WE ALL WOULD LIKE TO HAVE DEVELOPMENT IN THIS REGARD, PLEASE DO INFORM US WITH IT.
And about procedure of Companies in regard to allotment of any asset and maintaining record, which is now a common practice even with very small firms and acceptable.
From India, Gurgaon
Thanks for your response and I respect and buy your point of you but If you forget dear, then let me remind you that there is still no information shared by S. Vinoth Kumar (Thread owner) like Management asked for a new laptop to recover this loose but asked for repayment, therefore, now I request S. Vinoth Kumar to make it clear to us.
Now before going further, I would like to ask few questions:
-Who defines the terms and conditions or responsible for the formation of policies?
-Who is directly responsible for allotment of any asset to any employee?
-Who recommends this need/requirement of using laptops and to whom?
-Who regulates this procedure, fulfill this requirement and responsible for maintaining a record of allotment and
-Who is responsible for all work said above… in short which DEPARTMENT?
Lastly
-Suppose, you have allotted a laptop by your employer three years ago which is now needs to be repaired soon, what you gonna do, would you ask this to get repaired by your company /department/ employer or gonna bear the expenses of it by your own?
Laptop has lost mistakenly and the respective management can just inquired about this mistake, can lodge a “Missing/Lost Asset” complaint to police which is required/necessary for security reasons (to prevent for wrong usage of it as per rule of cyber and other social security laws) but can’t claim that employee has done it consciously without any proof or firm evidence. And if it is done by a mistake, employer has no right to ask employee to return a new laptop in replacement which is common thing and understandable. And I don’t think anyone (employer) have done like this.
And, if any employer (available at this community) has ever asked for a new laptop/any asset in replacement of lost/misplaced of any asset by any employee and having policy with any such terms & conditions, shall be obliged to know more about it. I am eager to know from all Employers (Members) available here please.
Also, to return a new laptop against old laptop won’t be a professional, ethical or practical decision.
Lets buys your point dear, if management decides to recover laptop in replacement of a lost laptop, do you have any idea how much cost of a new laptop would be today, with the same configuration and would it be acceptable to the Management.
One more thing I would like to add, your point is valid that Management always seeks for benefits, and I hope now you gonna have a clear idea which is more beneficial to Management.
Let’s not stretch it further, and accept that on practical terms, management won’t go for new laptop but for repayment and MR VINOTH, WE ALL WOULD LIKE TO HAVE DEVELOPMENT IN THIS REGARD, PLEASE DO INFORM US WITH IT.
And about procedure of Companies in regard to allotment of any asset and maintaining record, which is now a common practice even with very small firms and acceptable.
From India, Gurgaon
Anil
The original poster has stated that the company asked for depreciated value. The employee is complaining it is unfair. My point is it is not unfair. In fact company could have asked for a replacement.
The insurance company refused to pass the claim as it was carelessness on part. Insurance company's denial of claim is a good indicator of the employees liability for the loss. With detailed information, I can't say more.
I have seen many employers who as a rule ask for replacement. It has to be of similar or better configuration. It's stated in their employee hand book. For reason if confidentiality I can't give names in open forum. It includes one of the largest travel companies in the world, 4 large mnc it companies, 2 of the big 4 accounting firms.
From India, Mumbai
The original poster has stated that the company asked for depreciated value. The employee is complaining it is unfair. My point is it is not unfair. In fact company could have asked for a replacement.
The insurance company refused to pass the claim as it was carelessness on part. Insurance company's denial of claim is a good indicator of the employees liability for the loss. With detailed information, I can't say more.
I have seen many employers who as a rule ask for replacement. It has to be of similar or better configuration. It's stated in their employee hand book. For reason if confidentiality I can't give names in open forum. It includes one of the largest travel companies in the world, 4 large mnc it companies, 2 of the big 4 accounting firms.
From India, Mumbai
Dear All, As per trailing mail,it should be recovered from employee (Deprecation Value) because if it is not done there will not be any care of company assets. RAGHU
From India, Bhopal
From India, Bhopal
I agree with many valubale points above mentioned by our HR Fraternity.
I agree with one of the points that before hand a company should have
(1) A clear cut HR Policy on such company assets issued to employees
(2) To spell out the purpose and object of using such company assets and to what extent , any limits etc
(3) How to deal in case of loss, theft or damage of property ( keep in view all the scenarios while making policy)
(4) Since laptop forms important source of information of business today, a declaration from employee that hew ill protect
company information at any cost
(5) How to deal with recovery in case of (4)
My experience I share with you that in one of the companies , as per their policy, looking at the genuineness of the loss of laptop
management has considered the differential amount between insurance claim and its book value and collected accordingly from the employee , however it applies to this unqiue case only (not a generalized rule)
You may try this way
B.Dakshina Murty
Sr.Manager - HR
From India, Hyderabad
I agree with one of the points that before hand a company should have
(1) A clear cut HR Policy on such company assets issued to employees
(2) To spell out the purpose and object of using such company assets and to what extent , any limits etc
(3) How to deal in case of loss, theft or damage of property ( keep in view all the scenarios while making policy)
(4) Since laptop forms important source of information of business today, a declaration from employee that hew ill protect
company information at any cost
(5) How to deal with recovery in case of (4)
My experience I share with you that in one of the companies , as per their policy, looking at the genuineness of the loss of laptop
management has considered the differential amount between insurance claim and its book value and collected accordingly from the employee , however it applies to this unqiue case only (not a generalized rule)
You may try this way
B.Dakshina Murty
Sr.Manager - HR
From India, Hyderabad
Dear Mr.Anil,
I beg to differ with you on your view
"Laptop has lost mistakenly and the respective management can just inquired about this mistake, can lodge a “Missing/Lost Asset” complaint to police which is required/necessary for security reasons (to prevent for wrong usage of it as per rule of cyber and other social security laws) but can’t claim that employee has done it consciously without any proof or firm evidence. And if it is done by a mistake, employer has no right to ask employee to return a new laptop in replacement which is common thing and understandable. And I don’t think anyone (employer) have done like this."
If employers (HR or Finance department) start taking responsibility then the monkey gets shifted to the employer and it becomes their responsibility to get the asset replaced. Though the procedure of insuring assets is the onus of the employer, employee is equally responsible for safety of the assets handed over to him.
For example if a company provides latest mobile phones to its employees and one employee loses it and the company starts lodging a police complaint, the lost mobile phone is invariably not retrieved as we have seen in many cases. If we admit that the first case is genuine and set the employee free then there could be several cases of lost mobile phones. Trust you will appreciate my view point, as all employees are not genuine.
So in the interest of the organisation it is important that the company takes stringent measures to check loss of assets due to carelessness of the employee.
M.V.Kannan
From India, Madras
I beg to differ with you on your view
"Laptop has lost mistakenly and the respective management can just inquired about this mistake, can lodge a “Missing/Lost Asset” complaint to police which is required/necessary for security reasons (to prevent for wrong usage of it as per rule of cyber and other social security laws) but can’t claim that employee has done it consciously without any proof or firm evidence. And if it is done by a mistake, employer has no right to ask employee to return a new laptop in replacement which is common thing and understandable. And I don’t think anyone (employer) have done like this."
If employers (HR or Finance department) start taking responsibility then the monkey gets shifted to the employer and it becomes their responsibility to get the asset replaced. Though the procedure of insuring assets is the onus of the employer, employee is equally responsible for safety of the assets handed over to him.
For example if a company provides latest mobile phones to its employees and one employee loses it and the company starts lodging a police complaint, the lost mobile phone is invariably not retrieved as we have seen in many cases. If we admit that the first case is genuine and set the employee free then there could be several cases of lost mobile phones. Trust you will appreciate my view point, as all employees are not genuine.
So in the interest of the organisation it is important that the company takes stringent measures to check loss of assets due to carelessness of the employee.
M.V.Kannan
From India, Madras
A laptop issued by the company to an employee for official use contains information pertaining to the organization.
I know that in one company, it is specified that the IT department will take back-up regularly from the employees' laptop; this ensures that the database is not lost.
From India, Madras
I know that in one company, it is specified that the IT department will take back-up regularly from the employees' laptop; this ensures that the database is not lost.
From India, Madras
Well, if the company handed over you the laptop then you are only the responsible for that nd in case it damaged and insurance company not ready to pay then you have to pay for the laptop. Also, you can convince your HRs if you have some monetary issue etc or any specific issue if you have.
From India, Lucknow
From India, Lucknow
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