Dear Sir, I'm a newly appointed and the first HR Manager with an educational institute in Hyderabad. The institute's headcount is approximately 250 employees (both teaching and non-teaching staff). Till now none of them have received their appointment letters and out of 250 employees about 20-30% of the staff are working right from 15 years and few of them are working even before that. So my question is, can I issue an appointment letter to all these employees mentioning their original date of joining??
Please suggest.
Thank you
Sheetal
From India, Hyderabad
Please suggest.
Thank you
Sheetal
From India, Hyderabad
It is not possible to give appointment order or make a contract of employment with retrospective date. But in such circumstances, you can make a "settlement" by declaring the date of joining. It can be made separately for each employee or a common order in which the date of joining of each employee is declared. Normally, in respect of sub staff such common settlement is enough, but in respect of others, it is fair to have separate orders for each employee. The settlement will say that on account of various reasons the employees/ you were not provided with an appointment order at the time of joining, and whereas it is empirical to declare the dates of joining, the management has perused the records available and confirm the date of joining as follows......
From India, Kannur
4246From India, Kannur
Dear
The suggestion you received is quite valid under Indian labor law. It is indeed not possible to issue a retrospective appointment letter or an employment contract with a backdated joining date, as the law typically requires that such documents reflect the actual date of issuance.
However, in this scenario, you can create a formal settlement agreement to declare the date of joining for each employee, or for groups of employees, based on your records. This settlement can explicitly state that the employees were not provided with an appointment letter at the time of joining due to various reasons, but now, the management is formalizing their employment by declaring their actual date of joining based on available records.
For employees in higher positions (like teaching staff), it is advisable to issue individual settlement agreements to maintain transparency. For other staff members, a collective settlement document may be sufficient. The settlement will specify that the management has reviewed the records and confirmed the employees' dates of joining, ensuring clarity regarding their service history.
In summary, issuing a retrospective settlement agreement can effectively formalize the employment records while complying with legal standards. It is essential to communicate this process transparently to the employees to avoid any misunderstandings.
From India, Shimla
The suggestion you received is quite valid under Indian labor law. It is indeed not possible to issue a retrospective appointment letter or an employment contract with a backdated joining date, as the law typically requires that such documents reflect the actual date of issuance.
However, in this scenario, you can create a formal settlement agreement to declare the date of joining for each employee, or for groups of employees, based on your records. This settlement can explicitly state that the employees were not provided with an appointment letter at the time of joining due to various reasons, but now, the management is formalizing their employment by declaring their actual date of joining based on available records.
For employees in higher positions (like teaching staff), it is advisable to issue individual settlement agreements to maintain transparency. For other staff members, a collective settlement document may be sufficient. The settlement will specify that the management has reviewed the records and confirmed the employees' dates of joining, ensuring clarity regarding their service history.
In summary, issuing a retrospective settlement agreement can effectively formalize the employment records while complying with legal standards. It is essential to communicate this process transparently to the employees to avoid any misunderstandings.
From India, Shimla
Can I issue an appointment letter to all these employees mentioning their original date of joining?
Yes, you can do it but there are issues of terms of agreement on the basis of which they were appointed. And terms & conditions of all the categories of employees were equal.
Is the appointment letter is a demand from the staffs or your brain child ? You need to know the opinion of the management for issue of such papers. The appointment date is not a big issue but the terms and conditions of services keeps more complicated features, if not having policies or in absence of understanding of employees. You can provide the date of appointment subsequently taking an application of request from the employees to management.
From India, Mumbai
Yes, you can do it but there are issues of terms of agreement on the basis of which they were appointed. And terms & conditions of all the categories of employees were equal.
Is the appointment letter is a demand from the staffs or your brain child ? You need to know the opinion of the management for issue of such papers. The appointment date is not a big issue but the terms and conditions of services keeps more complicated features, if not having policies or in absence of understanding of employees. You can provide the date of appointment subsequently taking an application of request from the employees to management.
From India, Mumbai
Hi, It is an appreciable basic thing that you are planning to regularize. My suggestion is you can issue appointment letters with the original date of joining, provided you cannot sign for the retrospective date, only a authorized senior official in the company can sign and the employee acknowledgement to be back dated only. Moreover, you should have information about their salary details at the time of their joining. Further, in between they might have got increments, confirmation etc. that also to be regularized as required.
From India, Bengaluru
From India, Bengaluru
Dear colleagues, can anybody let us know is there any provision which prohibit issue of an appointment letter/order retrospectively or current dated quoting undisputed date of joining/terms & conditions in order to regularise the records where insufficient/relevant records either not issued or not traceable.
From India, Bangalore
From India, Bangalore
Lot of issues are existing and the issues will be raised from the employees end.
A real case example shared to understand,how people behave adversely once in comfort zone. They do not mind to drag the company by filing the case at the court. This case was happened 20-30 years back.
One person was working in MD's home residence(native place) than official bunglow as a daily wage earners and paid in cash vouchers. The person was a keen of a nurse, who was in deputation from the company hospital to look after the aged sick mother of MD.The nurse some how managed to convince the old lady in support of a permanent job in any of the group company for the boy. That time my boss gave me a chit of MD's mother to appoint the boy in a suitable position as per his qualification. In the year 1992 the boy was taken as an assistant for the local office but put under the mining contractor for the perio. In 1996 the mining operations of that mines stopped due to the notification of the supreme court. The payment to the boy obviously stopped. Since the matter is related to MD, it was decided by my boss to appoint the boy in main company roll. At that point of time he gave a hand written application mentioning his qualifications as HSC & DOB 1971. He was appointed in our Local office in Dec1996 as an Office Assistant. In the year 1999 our office completely damaged due to super cyclone, all registers and records damaged completely because office premises remained water merged for 20 more days. Things were running well till 2003, by that time my boss had retired from service. I too had left the company and joined a multi-national company.
The same person had filed a case before the local DLO in claiming his service from 1991, promotion and putting a graduate (fake qualifications) in lower category. The case was moved to the Labour Court. In this case the company was in a false position because they had not documentary evidences to produce before the LC.
In the year 2006, I got a call from a unknown number, the man was GM P&A of my old company. He talked to me about the case at length and the csse was heading against the company. It was saddened me to know about the case matter. I told him all possible help will be there from my side. The GM and the company Advocate came to my office at Chennai, they met my boss too and requested him to spare me for the same as when required.
In my old company it was a policy to file all the papers in a master file other than the department file and personal file.
The boy did not know that because he knew that all record of the office damaged in super cyclone and he managed to remove the documents from HR file too.
The company brought me as witness to the court because the person was working under me and appointed by me too.
The boy could not stand before me and started shaking out of nervousness because he knew the truth. Neither he Or his advocate place any clarification to the labour court against my points. The party could not stand against my witness and cross examination. The company put forth the hand written application of 1998 as well the office copy of appointment letter filed in the master file.
The company own the case and terminated the employee in 2009 soon after the judgement,.
From India, Mumbai
A real case example shared to understand,how people behave adversely once in comfort zone. They do not mind to drag the company by filing the case at the court. This case was happened 20-30 years back.
One person was working in MD's home residence(native place) than official bunglow as a daily wage earners and paid in cash vouchers. The person was a keen of a nurse, who was in deputation from the company hospital to look after the aged sick mother of MD.The nurse some how managed to convince the old lady in support of a permanent job in any of the group company for the boy. That time my boss gave me a chit of MD's mother to appoint the boy in a suitable position as per his qualification. In the year 1992 the boy was taken as an assistant for the local office but put under the mining contractor for the perio. In 1996 the mining operations of that mines stopped due to the notification of the supreme court. The payment to the boy obviously stopped. Since the matter is related to MD, it was decided by my boss to appoint the boy in main company roll. At that point of time he gave a hand written application mentioning his qualifications as HSC & DOB 1971. He was appointed in our Local office in Dec1996 as an Office Assistant. In the year 1999 our office completely damaged due to super cyclone, all registers and records damaged completely because office premises remained water merged for 20 more days. Things were running well till 2003, by that time my boss had retired from service. I too had left the company and joined a multi-national company.
The same person had filed a case before the local DLO in claiming his service from 1991, promotion and putting a graduate (fake qualifications) in lower category. The case was moved to the Labour Court. In this case the company was in a false position because they had not documentary evidences to produce before the LC.
In the year 2006, I got a call from a unknown number, the man was GM P&A of my old company. He talked to me about the case at length and the csse was heading against the company. It was saddened me to know about the case matter. I told him all possible help will be there from my side. The GM and the company Advocate came to my office at Chennai, they met my boss too and requested him to spare me for the same as when required.
In my old company it was a policy to file all the papers in a master file other than the department file and personal file.
The boy did not know that because he knew that all record of the office damaged in super cyclone and he managed to remove the documents from HR file too.
The company brought me as witness to the court because the person was working under me and appointed by me too.
The boy could not stand before me and started shaking out of nervousness because he knew the truth. Neither he Or his advocate place any clarification to the labour court against my points. The party could not stand against my witness and cross examination. The company put forth the hand written application of 1998 as well the office copy of appointment letter filed in the master file.
The company own the case and terminated the employee in 2009 soon after the judgement,.
From India, Mumbai
I have typical case to share with citeHR friends.
We, in my erstwhile Co. own a huge vacant land, over 14000 acres, legal title and a mining lease. To maintain ecology, flora & fauna part of vacant land about 4-5000 acres was afforested using local casuals thru' state forest officers and were paid thru' monthly muster rolls for over 10 yrs in cash. No appointment letters issued no other documents. During early 2000 mining operations closed and all regulars were given VRS or retrenched paying compensation as per Govt.of India schemes. This group of casuals were neither paid compensation and no continued employment. They formed a group and contested for compensation thru' labour commissioners and finally the case reached Karnataka High Court. The HC upheld their plea and ordered compensation be paid. Pl.note there were no Apptt.letter, attendance records were sketchy, relied only on muster rolls. Here what we have to see the circumstantial evidences, undisputed have been accepted as record of service. And therefore I feel nothing wrong in creation of proper authentication of record containing undisputed data with a view to regularise with official records retrospectively is better, lawful and acceptable by all stake holders in matters of contention and for any future dates.
From India, Bangalore
We, in my erstwhile Co. own a huge vacant land, over 14000 acres, legal title and a mining lease. To maintain ecology, flora & fauna part of vacant land about 4-5000 acres was afforested using local casuals thru' state forest officers and were paid thru' monthly muster rolls for over 10 yrs in cash. No appointment letters issued no other documents. During early 2000 mining operations closed and all regulars were given VRS or retrenched paying compensation as per Govt.of India schemes. This group of casuals were neither paid compensation and no continued employment. They formed a group and contested for compensation thru' labour commissioners and finally the case reached Karnataka High Court. The HC upheld their plea and ordered compensation be paid. Pl.note there were no Apptt.letter, attendance records were sketchy, relied only on muster rolls. Here what we have to see the circumstantial evidences, undisputed have been accepted as record of service. And therefore I feel nothing wrong in creation of proper authentication of record containing undisputed data with a view to regularise with official records retrospectively is better, lawful and acceptable by all stake holders in matters of contention and for any future dates.
From India, Bangalore
An appointment letter is not limited to DOJ only but with conditions of services and end of services too.
Therefore, any appointment without an appointment letter were either verbally detected terms or as per prevalent terms. What were the conditions of services then?
Thus employee needs to give his/her ascent by an affidavit or indemnify or self declared consent, that the DOJ and the terms & conditions laid down in the appointment letter is acceptable to him/her. And he/ she would not contradict the terms and conditions in future date.
From India, Mumbai
Therefore, any appointment without an appointment letter were either verbally detected terms or as per prevalent terms. What were the conditions of services then?
Thus employee needs to give his/her ascent by an affidavit or indemnify or self declared consent, that the DOJ and the terms & conditions laid down in the appointment letter is acceptable to him/her. And he/ she would not contradict the terms and conditions in future date.
From India, Mumbai
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