Hi there,
I can't find information regarding suspending an employee. The subject is not addressed in our Employee Standing Orders.
The employee is a workman; he is always talking to our receptionist after finishing his first shift. He stays with her until the receptionist finishes her general shift duty. Can we suspend him for 1-3 days? He would be given written notice for the suspension and actions to be taken if the offense is repeated.
Any help would be appreciated!!!
Partho
From Saudi Arabia
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5I can't find information regarding suspending an employee. The subject is not addressed in our Employee Standing Orders.
The employee is a workman; he is always talking to our receptionist after finishing his first shift. He stays with her until the receptionist finishes her general shift duty. Can we suspend him for 1-3 days? He would be given written notice for the suspension and actions to be taken if the offense is repeated.
Any help would be appreciated!!!
Partho
From Saudi Arabia
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User input:
😂 😂 😂
Counsel that person first and let him know that action will be taken if he continues doing so. Immediate suspension with no warning will make things look funny. I mean he would go around saying that you suspended him because he spoke to the receptionist. Always think of consequences before you do something. 😉
From India, Madras
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😂 😂 😂
Counsel that person first and let him know that action will be taken if he continues doing so. Immediate suspension with no warning will make things look funny. I mean he would go around saying that you suspended him because he spoke to the receptionist. Always think of consequences before you do something. 😉
From India, Madras
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Dear Ash,
Ash, you are biased in reading this subject because you find fault only with the male worker and not with the female receptionist. If both of them are wasting time during working hours, then we must warn both of them, not just the workmen but also the receptionist.
Please pardon me if I am wrong in interpreting the intention of this post. I always appreciate your postings and responses, but this time you misjudged both employees at fault.
Regards, Abraham
From Saudi Arabia
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Ash, you are biased in reading this subject because you find fault only with the male worker and not with the female receptionist. If both of them are wasting time during working hours, then we must warn both of them, not just the workmen but also the receptionist.
Please pardon me if I am wrong in interpreting the intention of this post. I always appreciate your postings and responses, but this time you misjudged both employees at fault.
Regards, Abraham
From Saudi Arabia
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Dear Parthoo,
There are two types of suspension:
1. Suspension pending enquiry - when someone has committed misconduct and the charges are very serious, their presence in the company could hinder the investigation. In such cases, management suspends the individual to conduct a fair and impartial enquiry.
2. Suspension as punishment - when an individual is found guilty of misconduct during the enquiry, they can be suspended as a punishment for a maximum of 4 days. During this period, they will not receive any payment. In the case of suspension pending enquiry, the individual will receive 50% of their salary.
In your situation, he cannot be suspended. Instead, I recommend calling him personally and providing him with a dose from the personnel department, warning him not to stay here unnecessarily. If he does not show improvement, you should issue a warning. If the behavior persists, initiate disciplinary proceedings against him.
Thank you,
J. S. Malik
From India, Delhi
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There are two types of suspension:
1. Suspension pending enquiry - when someone has committed misconduct and the charges are very serious, their presence in the company could hinder the investigation. In such cases, management suspends the individual to conduct a fair and impartial enquiry.
2. Suspension as punishment - when an individual is found guilty of misconduct during the enquiry, they can be suspended as a punishment for a maximum of 4 days. During this period, they will not receive any payment. In the case of suspension pending enquiry, the individual will receive 50% of their salary.
In your situation, he cannot be suspended. Instead, I recommend calling him personally and providing him with a dose from the personnel department, warning him not to stay here unnecessarily. If he does not show improvement, you should issue a warning. If the behavior persists, initiate disciplinary proceedings against him.
Thank you,
J. S. Malik
From India, Delhi
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Dear Abraham,
You are not wrong. I never realized this part :-) But I guess, Partho should actually spend time finding the actual reason and then try solutions to avoid the occurrence of the same. A mere suspension may not help. But I really appreciate your thoughts. I missed that point of view too. Yes - both must be counseled. Not just the male.
From India, Madras
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You are not wrong. I never realized this part :-) But I guess, Partho should actually spend time finding the actual reason and then try solutions to avoid the occurrence of the same. A mere suspension may not help. But I really appreciate your thoughts. I missed that point of view too. Yes - both must be counseled. Not just the male.
From India, Madras
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might be receiptionist and workmen are having an affair, the receiptionist seems to to have bad taste,, anyways talk with both of them, :dry::dry:
From India, Pune
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From India, Pune
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Dear Ravi,
You are right; they are love birds and having affairs. This is not a big issue in Australia in any of the offices. But my problem is not the affair but the time wasting and his overstaying in the office where he is not supposed to be after working hours.
In Australia, people do not care for job positions. People take care of their bills themselves; therefore, the test does not matter. Even a sweeper may fall in love with a Managing Director one day or week, and the next month, he may be found in an affair with a saleswoman. Nothing surprising here.
Partho
From Saudi Arabia
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You are right; they are love birds and having affairs. This is not a big issue in Australia in any of the offices. But my problem is not the affair but the time wasting and his overstaying in the office where he is not supposed to be after working hours.
In Australia, people do not care for job positions. People take care of their bills themselves; therefore, the test does not matter. Even a sweeper may fall in love with a Managing Director one day or week, and the next month, he may be found in an affair with a saleswoman. Nothing surprising here.
Partho
From Saudi Arabia
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Dear Partho,
Don't suspend the employee; just terminate him because he is always talking with your receptionist. Oh man! What is the problem if he is always talking with your receptionist – is she (the receptionist) complaining about this, or is someone else interested in her?
You can take action regarding this only if:
1) The receptionist complains against him.
2) He spoils the office decorum.
3) His behavior in reception is too awkward.
4) There is a complaint from senior management.
Regarding this, you must speak with your receptionist, discuss the awkwardness, understand their perspectives, identify the root cause, and if necessary, issue a warning letter to both of them for awareness.
Don't show partiality – always remember – it takes two hands to clap.
Regards,
Pankaj Chandan
From India, New delhi
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Don't suspend the employee; just terminate him because he is always talking with your receptionist. Oh man! What is the problem if he is always talking with your receptionist – is she (the receptionist) complaining about this, or is someone else interested in her?
You can take action regarding this only if:
1) The receptionist complains against him.
2) He spoils the office decorum.
3) His behavior in reception is too awkward.
4) There is a complaint from senior management.
Regarding this, you must speak with your receptionist, discuss the awkwardness, understand their perspectives, identify the root cause, and if necessary, issue a warning letter to both of them for awareness.
Don't show partiality – always remember – it takes two hands to clap.
Regards,
Pankaj Chandan
From India, New delhi
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I think I should look for a job in Australia. Do you have any openings there? I've got my passport ready and also have relatives in Melbourne, Australia. You know how hardworking and smart I am ;-);-):roll::roll:
From India, Pune
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From India, Pune
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Dear Ravi,
First of all, you have to immigrate to Australia through several tests and procedures that are available at the Australian Embassy. Then, you have to take some advanced courses here to become more preferable in employment because Indian certifications have limited scope. Most employers prefer Australian certifications, so this is a better option.
Partho
From Saudi Arabia
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First of all, you have to immigrate to Australia through several tests and procedures that are available at the Australian Embassy. Then, you have to take some advanced courses here to become more preferable in employment because Indian certifications have limited scope. Most employers prefer Australian certifications, so this is a better option.
Partho
From Saudi Arabia
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Hi,
As there are no official complaints by the receptionist against the workmen, you can't give anyone a warning letter until you receive a complaint of misbehavior. It would be better if you speak to both of them and try to resolve the issue before it escalates. Alternatively, you can give a verbal warning to both of them since the receptionist is also involved in the situation.
Thanks
From India, Mumbai
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As there are no official complaints by the receptionist against the workmen, you can't give anyone a warning letter until you receive a complaint of misbehavior. It would be better if you speak to both of them and try to resolve the issue before it escalates. Alternatively, you can give a verbal warning to both of them since the receptionist is also involved in the situation.
Thanks
From India, Mumbai
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Hey, just chill out. As the other members have said above, as long as there is no misbehavior or complaints, you won't be able to take any action against both of them. Anyways, you have already mentioned that it's common there. Absolutely, it's so common in Western Culture - "seeing each other," which is not so common as far as Indian culture goes.
Even if you call them personally or talk to them, the message would not be conveyed in the right manner. It would only create confusion because Western people are so. For instance, remember the cricket controversy between Australia and India for using the word "monkey." So the same goes here, unless there's any witness of misbehavior at the workplace, you can't take any action. If you speak to them regarding this personally, there are chances that things might turn against you as you know "seeing each other" is so common there and for them, it's not an issue.
But one thing is surely under your control - "the rules and regulations." So just revisit the working hours policy or similar sorts of policies and try to bring out some connection. Send an email to all employees stating the working timings, and no employee should stay back for any reason. Staying back unnecessarily might prove lack of speed, efficiency, or other disadvantages in a positive manner in whatever way you know that will suit your workplace. Bcc it to your management also. You can also add that if anybody stays back at the workplace for any other reason other than work, then management has the right to question the same.
Mention that the email or notice is a "Gentle reminder" of all our firm's rules, regulations, and policies. The message would be conveyed in a methodical way now targeting the whole organization. If you still don't find any progress in that issue, then either you can take it to the notice of your seniors on grounds of misbehavior at the workplace or not following the rules, as you said it would just go on for a certain period of time and it would vanish after that. It's your choice from then.
From India, Mumbai
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Even if you call them personally or talk to them, the message would not be conveyed in the right manner. It would only create confusion because Western people are so. For instance, remember the cricket controversy between Australia and India for using the word "monkey." So the same goes here, unless there's any witness of misbehavior at the workplace, you can't take any action. If you speak to them regarding this personally, there are chances that things might turn against you as you know "seeing each other" is so common there and for them, it's not an issue.
But one thing is surely under your control - "the rules and regulations." So just revisit the working hours policy or similar sorts of policies and try to bring out some connection. Send an email to all employees stating the working timings, and no employee should stay back for any reason. Staying back unnecessarily might prove lack of speed, efficiency, or other disadvantages in a positive manner in whatever way you know that will suit your workplace. Bcc it to your management also. You can also add that if anybody stays back at the workplace for any other reason other than work, then management has the right to question the same.
Mention that the email or notice is a "Gentle reminder" of all our firm's rules, regulations, and policies. The message would be conveyed in a methodical way now targeting the whole organization. If you still don't find any progress in that issue, then either you can take it to the notice of your seniors on grounds of misbehavior at the workplace or not following the rules, as you said it would just go on for a certain period of time and it would vanish after that. It's your choice from then.
From India, Mumbai
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Hey guys,
I think Partho is worried about time wastage, not their affair. So, Partho, just talk to them. It's fine if they are having a relationship. Ask them to have their conversations after work hours. Suspending him is not the solution; just talk to both of them.
With regards,
Sai
From India, Hyderabad
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I think Partho is worried about time wastage, not their affair. So, Partho, just talk to them. It's fine if they are having a relationship. Ask them to have their conversations after work hours. Suspending him is not the solution; just talk to both of them.
With regards,
Sai
From India, Hyderabad
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Dear [Employee's Name],
Please be advised that if you continue to engage in the same actions, a warning letter will be issued to you. If there is a failure to provide a satisfactory explanation, a show cause notice will follow. Subsequently, suspension may be implemented pending an inquiry, during which a charge sheet will be provided. The suspension will remain in effect until the investigation is concluded. While suspended, the employee is entitled to suspension allowances for up to 90 days, with 50% provided after the first 75%.
Regards,
[Your Name]
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Please be advised that if you continue to engage in the same actions, a warning letter will be issued to you. If there is a failure to provide a satisfactory explanation, a show cause notice will follow. Subsequently, suspension may be implemented pending an inquiry, during which a charge sheet will be provided. The suspension will remain in effect until the investigation is concluded. While suspended, the employee is entitled to suspension allowances for up to 90 days, with 50% provided after the first 75%.
Regards,
[Your Name]
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Counseling is much better solution.. Problems could be solved just my initiating conversation.. radical decisions would bring down the morale.. :huh::huh:
From India, Coimbatore
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From India, Coimbatore
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· I am surprised by the Post & the Comments
· What is wrong in talking with a colleague?
· Is talking with a female colleague prohibited in your office as per your company policies, then u take action, that too suspension of the employee, it is ridiculous?
· U have mentioned that he is talking with her only after his shift is over.
· Did any time, the receptionist complained to u, that becoz of his talking, she is into trouble..
· Please Let us think BIG..
· Don’t use the word Suspension only for the Sake to be Used..
· Please understand MORALS..
· I may be right, I may be wrong, BUT I speak my MIND
From India, Coimbatore
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· What is wrong in talking with a colleague?
· Is talking with a female colleague prohibited in your office as per your company policies, then u take action, that too suspension of the employee, it is ridiculous?
· U have mentioned that he is talking with her only after his shift is over.
· Did any time, the receptionist complained to u, that becoz of his talking, she is into trouble..
· Please Let us think BIG..
· Don’t use the word Suspension only for the Sake to be Used..
· Please understand MORALS..
· I may be right, I may be wrong, BUT I speak my MIND
From India, Coimbatore
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Dear Mr. Partha,
The basic issue is that the guy is completing his work and gossiping with the receptionist, which means he is doing his job. The main issue lies with the receptionist as she/he is wasting their actual working time; hence, the action should be taken against the receptionist. If this guy is disturbing her/him, then they should complain to HR/their respective superior, but that is not happening. Therefore, it is the receptionist who should be targeted.
Call the receptionist first, inform them that they are gossiping during working hours and wasting valuable time. It is the responsibility of the receptionist to prevent other workers from engaging in conversations during working hours. If the issue is resolved through oral discussion, then it's fine. Otherwise, a written warning should be issued to the receptionist, and security should ensure that the worker leaves the premises on time and document it. If the worker refuses to leave, instruct security to file a written complaint. Based on the complaint, issue a warning for overstaying at the workplace without a valid reason.
If the situation does not improve even after these steps, conduct an inquiry and take appropriate action. The initial focus should be on the receptionist rather than the worker. Alert the security and inform the worker's department head to ensure the worker leaves the premises after completing their duties. Maintain proper and detailed records of all these activities for future reference during the inquiry. Gather potential eyewitnesses such as security guards, drivers, staff, and co-workers to strengthen the case.
Thank you and regards - Kameswarao
From India, Hyderabad
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The basic issue is that the guy is completing his work and gossiping with the receptionist, which means he is doing his job. The main issue lies with the receptionist as she/he is wasting their actual working time; hence, the action should be taken against the receptionist. If this guy is disturbing her/him, then they should complain to HR/their respective superior, but that is not happening. Therefore, it is the receptionist who should be targeted.
Call the receptionist first, inform them that they are gossiping during working hours and wasting valuable time. It is the responsibility of the receptionist to prevent other workers from engaging in conversations during working hours. If the issue is resolved through oral discussion, then it's fine. Otherwise, a written warning should be issued to the receptionist, and security should ensure that the worker leaves the premises on time and document it. If the worker refuses to leave, instruct security to file a written complaint. Based on the complaint, issue a warning for overstaying at the workplace without a valid reason.
If the situation does not improve even after these steps, conduct an inquiry and take appropriate action. The initial focus should be on the receptionist rather than the worker. Alert the security and inform the worker's department head to ensure the worker leaves the premises after completing their duties. Maintain proper and detailed records of all these activities for future reference during the inquiry. Gather potential eyewitnesses such as security guards, drivers, staff, and co-workers to strengthen the case.
Thank you and regards - Kameswarao
From India, Hyderabad
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First you s’ld warn him not to indulge in such practice in writing. If repeats the same suspend him by invoking the clause overstaying in the premises after office hours etc., Sudheer Reddy
From Ireland
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From Ireland
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Dear Partho,
I don't understand why the issue has been dragged out for so long. You just need to speak to them first because issuing a suspension letter is absolutely not recommended. Later, it will make you feel guilty because you have not made the effort to understand or even try to unearth the root cause. Neither have you given them a chance to speak from their end. As an HR professional, it is a prime responsibility to find out the root cause, listen from both ends, and then come to a certain conclusion. In the end, you need to think about the employee, along with management and the reputation of the organization.
Regards,
MS Nair
From India, Pune
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I don't understand why the issue has been dragged out for so long. You just need to speak to them first because issuing a suspension letter is absolutely not recommended. Later, it will make you feel guilty because you have not made the effort to understand or even try to unearth the root cause. Neither have you given them a chance to speak from their end. As an HR professional, it is a prime responsibility to find out the root cause, listen from both ends, and then come to a certain conclusion. In the end, you need to think about the employee, along with management and the reputation of the organization.
Regards,
MS Nair
From India, Pune
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Suspension is the culmination of verbal counseling, written counseling, and a warning. Thereafter, it should be followed by an inquiry to establish the charges, failing which it will amount to harassment. The written warning should contain references to specific omissions and commissions with time, date, and location of occurrences along with names of witnesses who were present at the spot. However, in the present case, even though the act is undesirable in order to maintain good order and discipline in the office, it does not constitute an offense warranting these actions. In case you really need to pin him down, then catch him for some lapses in the performance of official duty, which will maintain credibility. It's best that it is forgotten as a case of office romance, as long as it is not affecting productivity.
Prof. Hema Harsha
Bangalore
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Prof. Hema Harsha
Bangalore
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I think there seems to be some amount of overreaction here. Let me present you with a slightly different scenario. What would our reaction be if the guy was the husband of the receptionist? Would we have reacted this way? Would he be wrong waiting for his wife to finish work before going home together? I think it's all a question of perspective. I also think it's a question of discipline.
If his waiting is causing problems whereby the receptionist is not completing her jobs or doing her work properly, then she needs to be put on notice for non-performance. Please understand that the guy has completed his allotted work (shift), so he cannot be blamed for performance issues unless there are some in his regular shift.
If their conversation/interaction is creating disturbance, then both need to be told about it and asked to refrain. Can any HR decide whom, when, and where an employee should interact with another? Not really.
I think what this situation requires is a small interaction with each individual explaining the effects of their activity on the rest of the organization and the need for them to be more "professional."
Cheers,
Navneet
From India, Delhi
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If his waiting is causing problems whereby the receptionist is not completing her jobs or doing her work properly, then she needs to be put on notice for non-performance. Please understand that the guy has completed his allotted work (shift), so he cannot be blamed for performance issues unless there are some in his regular shift.
If their conversation/interaction is creating disturbance, then both need to be told about it and asked to refrain. Can any HR decide whom, when, and where an employee should interact with another? Not really.
I think what this situation requires is a small interaction with each individual explaining the effects of their activity on the rest of the organization and the need for them to be more "professional."
Cheers,
Navneet
From India, Delhi
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Dear Partho,
Terminating an employee is not as easy as merely issuing a printout of the relieving letter. One must consider the potential consequences as it may impact other workers within the organization.
HR should be mindful when encountering such issues, particularly by considering the following aspects:
1. The past history of the employee with coworkers.
2. The history of the relationship between the receptionist and the employees.
When deciding to terminate an employee, it is crucial not to rush the process within 2 to 3 days. It should be carried out systematically, and I recommend implementing a Corrective Action Plan, which could involve the following steps:
1. Inform the employee that they are under observation for a specified period (1 or 2 months) and that this could lead to termination.
2. Assign specific goals to be achieved or improved upon.
3. Conduct a midterm review to provide feedback on progress.
4. Hold a final discussion, and if the outcome is positive, continue with the employee; if not, issue a pink slip.
Regards,
Shiv
From India, Bangalore
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Terminating an employee is not as easy as merely issuing a printout of the relieving letter. One must consider the potential consequences as it may impact other workers within the organization.
HR should be mindful when encountering such issues, particularly by considering the following aspects:
1. The past history of the employee with coworkers.
2. The history of the relationship between the receptionist and the employees.
When deciding to terminate an employee, it is crucial not to rush the process within 2 to 3 days. It should be carried out systematically, and I recommend implementing a Corrective Action Plan, which could involve the following steps:
1. Inform the employee that they are under observation for a specified period (1 or 2 months) and that this could lead to termination.
2. Assign specific goals to be achieved or improved upon.
3. Conduct a midterm review to provide feedback on progress.
4. Hold a final discussion, and if the outcome is positive, continue with the employee; if not, issue a pink slip.
Regards,
Shiv
From India, Bangalore
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Why is the issue being dragged out for so long? I understand from Partho's comments in one of the posts that the issue being discussed is about a firm in Australia. There is no need to harp on about the Standing Orders and disciplinary proceedings in India. The rule of law should prevail. There must be laws in Australia to deal with this.
In general, no employer should 'want' or 'wish' to suspend an employee. If certain actions, deeds, or the absence of actions by an employee go against the disciplinary norms or the employment agreement with the organization, then the organization may conduct disciplinary proceedings. If found guilty, the employee may be suspended based on the severity of the misconduct.
Suspension can be the outcome of disciplinary proceedings but should not be the conclusion reached before the disciplinary proceedings.
- Hiten
From India, New Delhi
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In general, no employer should 'want' or 'wish' to suspend an employee. If certain actions, deeds, or the absence of actions by an employee go against the disciplinary norms or the employment agreement with the organization, then the organization may conduct disciplinary proceedings. If found guilty, the employee may be suspended based on the severity of the misconduct.
Suspension can be the outcome of disciplinary proceedings but should not be the conclusion reached before the disciplinary proceedings.
- Hiten
From India, New Delhi
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Thank you, everyone.
I tried to convey my message to both of them, and I received the following reply:
In Caucasian (white people) culture, men pamper women in relationships. If this relationship is to flourish and lead to marriage, the man must always communicate with his partner at least five times and accompany her to demonstrate his loyalty if he desires to marry her. This is a social norm, and women never accept a man who lacks a caring attitude towards them. Therefore, this couple is planning to marry soon. They are engaged and need to spend maximum time together to show loyalty to each other. This is their fundamental right and civil right. In a common workplace setting, they have the advantage of nurturing this relationship within the office.
I advised both of them to maintain decorum, and they assured me that their work will not be affected. He agreed to wait for her in the visitors' waiting room until her office hours are over.
I appreciate all the valuable suggestions.
Regards, Partho
From Saudi Arabia
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I tried to convey my message to both of them, and I received the following reply:
In Caucasian (white people) culture, men pamper women in relationships. If this relationship is to flourish and lead to marriage, the man must always communicate with his partner at least five times and accompany her to demonstrate his loyalty if he desires to marry her. This is a social norm, and women never accept a man who lacks a caring attitude towards them. Therefore, this couple is planning to marry soon. They are engaged and need to spend maximum time together to show loyalty to each other. This is their fundamental right and civil right. In a common workplace setting, they have the advantage of nurturing this relationship within the office.
I advised both of them to maintain decorum, and they assured me that their work will not be affected. He agreed to wait for her in the visitors' waiting room until her office hours are over.
I appreciate all the valuable suggestions.
Regards, Partho
From Saudi Arabia
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Wow Partho, See how much it has helped u , when you have actually discussed this with them. Good Job, and New info - knowledge sharing!!!! Hey but thats actually cute.
From India, Madras
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From India, Madras
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Hello Partho,
A male worker explained this fact to me only after I reprimanded them for their bad manners in the office during work hours. In response to my reprimand, the male worker expressed his concern that he may lose the receptionist because of his negligence towards her. He mentioned that if he does not show loyalty and pamper her, he will never marry her.
Regards,
Sardharji
From Saudi Arabia
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A male worker explained this fact to me only after I reprimanded them for their bad manners in the office during work hours. In response to my reprimand, the male worker expressed his concern that he may lose the receptionist because of his negligence towards her. He mentioned that if he does not show loyalty and pamper her, he will never marry her.
Regards,
Sardharji
From Saudi Arabia
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Dear partho, first of all u should know why did the workmen go to the reception...if receptionist against him then u can talk to him.....
From India, Calcutta
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From India, Calcutta
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DISCIPLINARY ACTION.ppt
Record of disciplinary action.doc