Hi all,
Our written warning currently has the following wording:
[I, by virtue of my signature, warrant that I believe the disciplinary inquiry to have been conducted fairly and that I accept the sanction imposed on me as fair and just.]
One of our employees is refusing to sign a warning given to her, and now her supervisor is questioning the above. He thinks she is refusing to sign because of this clause.
Is this an acceptable wording on a warning letter?
From South Africa, Johannesburg
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Our written warning currently has the following wording:
[I, by virtue of my signature, warrant that I believe the disciplinary inquiry to have been conducted fairly and that I accept the sanction imposed on me as fair and just.]
One of our employees is refusing to sign a warning given to her, and now her supervisor is questioning the above. He thinks she is refusing to sign because of this clause.
Is this an acceptable wording on a warning letter?
From South Africa, Johannesburg
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Dear Crossfire,
The wording that you have written is quite clumsy. One who reads it will not be able to make out whether you want to obtain a statement from the witness of the disciplinary inquiry that it was conducted in a fair manner or you want to issue a warning letter.
You need to clarify:
a) What was the situation? Where did it happen? Did it happen on company premises or off company premises?
b) What were the terms of reference of the inquiry?
c) Who was the inquiry officer?
d) How many witnesses were there?
e) What material evidence did you have?
f) When was the inquiry ordered and conducted? How many days did the inquiry officer take to complete the inquiry?
g) Has the Inquiry Officer recommended any punishment? (If so, please note that the inquiry officer cannot recommend any punishment. His job is only to find out who was guilty and on what charges)
h) Do you have approved and certified standing orders?
i) Is the punishment you will award to the guilty in line with the standing orders?
j) Have the principles of natural justice been followed during the inquiry?
It would not be feasible to provide any assistance unless you provide all the necessary information.
Thanks,
Dinesh V Divekar
From India, Bangalore
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8032The wording that you have written is quite clumsy. One who reads it will not be able to make out whether you want to obtain a statement from the witness of the disciplinary inquiry that it was conducted in a fair manner or you want to issue a warning letter.
You need to clarify:
a) What was the situation? Where did it happen? Did it happen on company premises or off company premises?
b) What were the terms of reference of the inquiry?
c) Who was the inquiry officer?
d) How many witnesses were there?
e) What material evidence did you have?
f) When was the inquiry ordered and conducted? How many days did the inquiry officer take to complete the inquiry?
g) Has the Inquiry Officer recommended any punishment? (If so, please note that the inquiry officer cannot recommend any punishment. His job is only to find out who was guilty and on what charges)
h) Do you have approved and certified standing orders?
i) Is the punishment you will award to the guilty in line with the standing orders?
j) Have the principles of natural justice been followed during the inquiry?
It would not be feasible to provide any assistance unless you provide all the necessary information.
Thanks,
Dinesh V Divekar
From India, Bangalore
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Hello Crossfire,
Dinesh V Divekar is right. Basically, what he means is this: please mention the general procedure/process of any inquiry in your company. When even the supervisor of this employee has supported her, there does seem to be some mismatch in what you are attempting to do and how it's 'perceived' by the employee(s). This could be a sort of warning bell for you to correct any lacunae in the procedure.
Regards,
TS
From India, Hyderabad
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Dinesh V Divekar is right. Basically, what he means is this: please mention the general procedure/process of any inquiry in your company. When even the supervisor of this employee has supported her, there does seem to be some mismatch in what you are attempting to do and how it's 'perceived' by the employee(s). This could be a sort of warning bell for you to correct any lacunae in the procedure.
Regards,
TS
From India, Hyderabad
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The way the clause was drafted sounds like there is a crossfire between the employee and the one who wants to get it signed. Honestly speaking, I am not able to interpret it. It reflects a dictatorship style and acceptance by force. Kindly do respond to all those queries raised by Mr. Dinesh.
Crossfire, we all would be glad if you could introduce yourself with relevant details. It's a really unprofessional approach to have a junk ID and post queries without appropriate information in either way. You have demonstrated that you do not possess high maturity skills and lot more.
With profound regards
From India, Chennai
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Crossfire, we all would be glad if you could introduce yourself with relevant details. It's a really unprofessional approach to have a junk ID and post queries without appropriate information in either way. You have demonstrated that you do not possess high maturity skills and lot more.
With profound regards
From India, Chennai
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Dear Crossfire,
Dinesh Divekar has raised very valid points. I will raise some more. Have you asked the employee why she refuses to sign? Would you have signed such a document if it were issued to you? What is the option if an employee felt that the inquiry had not been conducted fairly? What is the option if an employee felt that the inquiry was conducted fairly but the sanction imposed was unfair and unjust? I hope you get my point. Without having all the details, it is like answering "How to get to Delhi and how long will it take?".
Have a lovely day.
Simhan Learning and Teaching Fellow (Retd.) The University of Bolton, UK. "It is never too late to learn or improve oneself".
Crossfire,
Our written warning currently has the following wording: "I, by virtue of my signature, warrant that I believe the disciplinary inquiry to have been conducted fairly and that I accept the sanction imposed on me as fair and just."
One of our employees is refusing to sign a warning given to her, and now her Supervisor is questioning the above. He thinks she is refusing to sign because of this clause. Is this an acceptable wording on a warning letter?
Thank you.
From United Kingdom
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Dinesh Divekar has raised very valid points. I will raise some more. Have you asked the employee why she refuses to sign? Would you have signed such a document if it were issued to you? What is the option if an employee felt that the inquiry had not been conducted fairly? What is the option if an employee felt that the inquiry was conducted fairly but the sanction imposed was unfair and unjust? I hope you get my point. Without having all the details, it is like answering "How to get to Delhi and how long will it take?".
Have a lovely day.
Simhan Learning and Teaching Fellow (Retd.) The University of Bolton, UK. "It is never too late to learn or improve oneself".
Crossfire,
Our written warning currently has the following wording: "I, by virtue of my signature, warrant that I believe the disciplinary inquiry to have been conducted fairly and that I accept the sanction imposed on me as fair and just."
One of our employees is refusing to sign a warning given to her, and now her Supervisor is questioning the above. He thinks she is refusing to sign because of this clause. Is this an acceptable wording on a warning letter?
Thank you.
From United Kingdom
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Dear all,
Let me add my part; this is ridiculous, to say the least. First of all, it is a warning letter. If it is a warning letter, then why such an undertaking? It is not needed since a warning doesn't need the whole inquiry process to have gone through. Hence, I feel it is preposterous for such a signed undertaking. But if the disciplinary process is completed and warrants that it was just and fair, something like this cannot save any inherent defects in the process. So in any manner, this sort of certification is not going to help. Not only she, but any right-thinking person will have reservations about signing such a format. Legally, such a document is not going to be of much help.
Regards, KK
From India, Bhopal
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Let me add my part; this is ridiculous, to say the least. First of all, it is a warning letter. If it is a warning letter, then why such an undertaking? It is not needed since a warning doesn't need the whole inquiry process to have gone through. Hence, I feel it is preposterous for such a signed undertaking. But if the disciplinary process is completed and warrants that it was just and fair, something like this cannot save any inherent defects in the process. So in any manner, this sort of certification is not going to help. Not only she, but any right-thinking person will have reservations about signing such a format. Legally, such a document is not going to be of much help.
Regards, KK
From India, Bhopal
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Dear All,
In any case, issuing a warning letter is not valid unless you give him/her a chance to defend. So, as per my view, first issue a show cause notice asking for the reasons for the cause. Then, after considering the reply to the show cause notice, issue a warning letter. If you want the specimen warning letter, please write.
Regards,
Chandru
From India, Madras
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In any case, issuing a warning letter is not valid unless you give him/her a chance to defend. So, as per my view, first issue a show cause notice asking for the reasons for the cause. Then, after considering the reply to the show cause notice, issue a warning letter. If you want the specimen warning letter, please write.
Regards,
Chandru
From India, Madras
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Basically, a "WARNING" does not impose any "SANCTION." A warning is advanced information to the concerned to correct himself/herself, as he/she was found to have committed an unacceptable act/acts as per the Rules and Regulations of the Company. Even this warning should be given after conducting a thorough inquiry as per the act.
When a warning letter is issued to an erring employee, he/she does not warrant anything or give a statement saying he/she "believes" because the whole process of the inquiry has been (should have been) conducted as per the act, with witnesses around.
The so-called "warning" mentioned in your mail is totally inappropriate, and with this type of "declaration," even if it is signed by the employee who is supposed to get the warning, this will NOT stand in a court of law.
Whenever you need assistance/help, unless the whole issue is made known, you will most probably get only a part of the help, which at times will put you in trouble. Hence please be TRANSPARENT in what you want.
G. RAMAKRISHNAN
From India, Madras
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When a warning letter is issued to an erring employee, he/she does not warrant anything or give a statement saying he/she "believes" because the whole process of the inquiry has been (should have been) conducted as per the act, with witnesses around.
The so-called "warning" mentioned in your mail is totally inappropriate, and with this type of "declaration," even if it is signed by the employee who is supposed to get the warning, this will NOT stand in a court of law.
Whenever you need assistance/help, unless the whole issue is made known, you will most probably get only a part of the help, which at times will put you in trouble. Hence please be TRANSPARENT in what you want.
G. RAMAKRISHNAN
From India, Madras
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Hi, the very wording of the warning letter reeks of high-handedness. In any case, acceptance of such conditions will not be beneficial in any way. In fact, it is likely to backfire if challenged in the appropriate court.
Ravindra Pund
From India, Pune
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Ravindra Pund
From India, Pune
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Hi,
I understand that such a sentence or clause would have been added by management to cover themselves against any appeal procedures or external litigation. However, it is too contrived and too obviously a management tool. Provide a warning letter in the presence of a management witness, and hopefully, the company has an in-house appeal procedure should the employee feel that he/she has been disadvantaged.
From Australia
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I understand that such a sentence or clause would have been added by management to cover themselves against any appeal procedures or external litigation. However, it is too contrived and too obviously a management tool. Provide a warning letter in the presence of a management witness, and hopefully, the company has an in-house appeal procedure should the employee feel that he/she has been disadvantaged.
From Australia
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