[QUOTE=People Power;1295667]
Ms. George,
Thanks for expressing your situation with us. However, I have a few queries for you:
1. Do the employees have the habit of leaving the lights on?
2. If you keep your mobile in silent mode, how does anyone know? Normally, it is a rule in most companies to keep the mobile in silent mode. In some companies, employees are even asked to submit their mobiles before entering the cabins; they can retrieve them while going back home.
3. How do you access the floors for which you have no access permissions? And moreover, why?
4. Don't you keep your desk clean? In most offices, these things are highly noted. You are lucky that you have been instructed to do so. For people who are not told but are silently noticed, it's the worst case. What do you say?
Ms. George, if you give away your house for rent and strictly instruct the tenants to keep the walls, garden, bathroom clean, and to switch off the verandah light before sleeping, otherwise a fine will be charged. From the very next day, they will follow your instructions as cleanliness is next to godliness. They won't run away or be scared because they have been asked to be clean. The person would be foolish to run away.
I have shared my thoughts with you. There are many worse situations than yours. You are fortunate to be in a well-mannered and disciplined company. Congratulations for that.
Regards,
For heaven's sake, no wonder you have a high attrition rate. These kinds of workplaces sound like a prison, not a 21st-century workplace. I would never submit my mobile to anyone. If this represents the standard workplace in India, then I wouldn't last a day.
Regards,
Bruncha
From United Arab Emirates, Dubai
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7Ms. George,
Thanks for expressing your situation with us. However, I have a few queries for you:
1. Do the employees have the habit of leaving the lights on?
2. If you keep your mobile in silent mode, how does anyone know? Normally, it is a rule in most companies to keep the mobile in silent mode. In some companies, employees are even asked to submit their mobiles before entering the cabins; they can retrieve them while going back home.
3. How do you access the floors for which you have no access permissions? And moreover, why?
4. Don't you keep your desk clean? In most offices, these things are highly noted. You are lucky that you have been instructed to do so. For people who are not told but are silently noticed, it's the worst case. What do you say?
Ms. George, if you give away your house for rent and strictly instruct the tenants to keep the walls, garden, bathroom clean, and to switch off the verandah light before sleeping, otherwise a fine will be charged. From the very next day, they will follow your instructions as cleanliness is next to godliness. They won't run away or be scared because they have been asked to be clean. The person would be foolish to run away.
I have shared my thoughts with you. There are many worse situations than yours. You are fortunate to be in a well-mannered and disciplined company. Congratulations for that.
Regards,
For heaven's sake, no wonder you have a high attrition rate. These kinds of workplaces sound like a prison, not a 21st-century workplace. I would never submit my mobile to anyone. If this represents the standard workplace in India, then I wouldn't last a day.
Regards,
Bruncha
From United Arab Emirates, Dubai
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Sorry to say, but I could not read this thread anymore. I wonder whether it is a company or a fine collection community. Collecting $500 for such mistakes will make employees more hateful rather than loving their job. Having rules is not a bad thing, but making the employees bend on their knees and obliging them is way beyond. Sorry, but it sounds like a BPO where I first started my career.
From India, Hyderabad
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From India, Hyderabad
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Hello,
This is totally unethical. This will surely lead to employees leaving the organization. Who would continue working when the management keeps these kinds of rules? As said by one of our members, office boys and security guards can check and switch off the lights. I am sure these instructions can be passed to employees in a more beneficial way than deducting an amount. I am sure not even a single person is happy about this office.
1) Employees are not kids, and they know how to keep their desks clean. There's housekeeping too, who can help.
2) Let the company collect the mobile phones of the employees while they enter the office (through security guards).
Tell me one thing, are these rules applied to the management staff too? I am sure this doesn't. Though the management has all rights over the employee on his behavior, etc., in the office. But this is not the way. I totally disagree. I feel an office should be a friendly home or a rules place.
Swapna.
From India, Mumbai
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This is totally unethical. This will surely lead to employees leaving the organization. Who would continue working when the management keeps these kinds of rules? As said by one of our members, office boys and security guards can check and switch off the lights. I am sure these instructions can be passed to employees in a more beneficial way than deducting an amount. I am sure not even a single person is happy about this office.
1) Employees are not kids, and they know how to keep their desks clean. There's housekeeping too, who can help.
2) Let the company collect the mobile phones of the employees while they enter the office (through security guards).
Tell me one thing, are these rules applied to the management staff too? I am sure this doesn't. Though the management has all rights over the employee on his behavior, etc., in the office. But this is not the way. I totally disagree. I feel an office should be a friendly home or a rules place.
Swapna.
From India, Mumbai
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Dear friend,
Let's not debate whether it is ethical or unethical. What your management says is to be a disciplined person, that is all.
You mentioned you had joined a couple of years back. No management, person, or even a teacher at school goes for such a harsh punishment at the first instance. Maybe your management would have sent a circular, communicated earlier to your staff to be self-disciplined. Despite their efforts, employees may have been careless in adhering to the system. Then this kind of punishment would have come into force.
As our former President Dr. A.P.J. Abdul Kalam said, in Singapore and other countries if you throw a chocolate wrapper, within no time there would be a policeman in front of you to collect a fine. The same person, when in India, might spit in elevators, throw rubbish on the road, or even urinate on the street corner; because there are no strict rules here and people behave as per their convenience.
In foreign countries, people follow the rules and systems without feeling pressured. How many people wear helmets (though it is for their safety); when fines are imposed, people start wearing helmets not just for their own benefit, but with the fear of losing money.
Imagine if some foreign visitors come for business dealings with your company and tour your office. If papers are scattered and things are not in order, what would they feel? Therefore, there is nothing wrong with being disciplined and clean.
Secondly, in my office, many people use cell phones during work hours, wasting time talking to friends and family. Some employees visit others' workstations and chat, wasting their time and others' time as well. If these behaviors persist, where is the productivity? I personally call them out and warn them, and if they do not change, I ensure it is addressed during performance reviews or at the time of increments (again, it affects their monetary benefits).
When we visit a vegetable shop to buy 'ladies finger,' don't we break the tips and ensure we buy only tender ones? For paying some 10 or 15 rupees, we expect quality; what is wrong with expecting quality from people when the management pays you some 10-15 thousand rupees?
If you observe the repercussions of this system, as our friends mentioned earlier, there might be some attrition. However, there would be attrition regardless. If you are not convinced or unable to convince your colleagues, you always have the choice of finding a job more to your liking. Even if you move to another organization, there might be different issues that you perceive as worse than in the previous organization. How long can you keep changing jobs? Just think.
V. Balaji
From India, Madras
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Let's not debate whether it is ethical or unethical. What your management says is to be a disciplined person, that is all.
You mentioned you had joined a couple of years back. No management, person, or even a teacher at school goes for such a harsh punishment at the first instance. Maybe your management would have sent a circular, communicated earlier to your staff to be self-disciplined. Despite their efforts, employees may have been careless in adhering to the system. Then this kind of punishment would have come into force.
As our former President Dr. A.P.J. Abdul Kalam said, in Singapore and other countries if you throw a chocolate wrapper, within no time there would be a policeman in front of you to collect a fine. The same person, when in India, might spit in elevators, throw rubbish on the road, or even urinate on the street corner; because there are no strict rules here and people behave as per their convenience.
In foreign countries, people follow the rules and systems without feeling pressured. How many people wear helmets (though it is for their safety); when fines are imposed, people start wearing helmets not just for their own benefit, but with the fear of losing money.
Imagine if some foreign visitors come for business dealings with your company and tour your office. If papers are scattered and things are not in order, what would they feel? Therefore, there is nothing wrong with being disciplined and clean.
Secondly, in my office, many people use cell phones during work hours, wasting time talking to friends and family. Some employees visit others' workstations and chat, wasting their time and others' time as well. If these behaviors persist, where is the productivity? I personally call them out and warn them, and if they do not change, I ensure it is addressed during performance reviews or at the time of increments (again, it affects their monetary benefits).
When we visit a vegetable shop to buy 'ladies finger,' don't we break the tips and ensure we buy only tender ones? For paying some 10 or 15 rupees, we expect quality; what is wrong with expecting quality from people when the management pays you some 10-15 thousand rupees?
If you observe the repercussions of this system, as our friends mentioned earlier, there might be some attrition. However, there would be attrition regardless. If you are not convinced or unable to convince your colleagues, you always have the choice of finding a job more to your liking. Even if you move to another organization, there might be different issues that you perceive as worse than in the previous organization. How long can you keep changing jobs? Just think.
V. Balaji
From India, Madras
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Ms.Geogre, This is purely ridicules & unethical I could not be agree with this kind of punishment you should have to protest for the same. Kamlesh Barmeda
From India, Ahmadabad
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From India, Ahmadabad
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Dear Ms. George,
The issue of ethical or unethical regulation or procedure depends on the agreement/terms & conditions of employment entered into by the employee with the management, as accepted by him/her at the time of joining or even later if amendments to the regulations are made.
Therefore, the imposition of a monetary fine would be ethical if the employee has already accepted the employer's agreement/terms & conditions. If there is no such clause regarding fines or if it has not been communicated by the management, employees can address the issue with the management accordingly.
Hence, it is advised to review the terms & conditions of your employment first, as you may have accepted these conditions upon employment or even later during your employment.
Regards,
PS Dhingra
Vigilance & Transformation Management Consultant
Dhingra Group of Management & Educational Consultants
New Delhi
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Dear All,
In our company, employees are fined 500 rupees for each non-disciplinary deed, such as a mobile ringing during office hours, sitting in another's cabin, accessing floors they are not allowed on, leaving papers on the table after office hours, forgetting papers on the table after office hours, and forgetting to switch off the light. This amount will be deducted from the salary as a salary advance.
Do you think this practice is ethical? Please share your views.
Regards,
Ms. George
From India, Delhi
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The issue of ethical or unethical regulation or procedure depends on the agreement/terms & conditions of employment entered into by the employee with the management, as accepted by him/her at the time of joining or even later if amendments to the regulations are made.
Therefore, the imposition of a monetary fine would be ethical if the employee has already accepted the employer's agreement/terms & conditions. If there is no such clause regarding fines or if it has not been communicated by the management, employees can address the issue with the management accordingly.
Hence, it is advised to review the terms & conditions of your employment first, as you may have accepted these conditions upon employment or even later during your employment.
Regards,
PS Dhingra
Vigilance & Transformation Management Consultant
Dhingra Group of Management & Educational Consultants
New Delhi
---
Dear All,
In our company, employees are fined 500 rupees for each non-disciplinary deed, such as a mobile ringing during office hours, sitting in another's cabin, accessing floors they are not allowed on, leaving papers on the table after office hours, forgetting papers on the table after office hours, and forgetting to switch off the light. This amount will be deducted from the salary as a salary advance.
Do you think this practice is ethical? Please share your views.
Regards,
Ms. George
From India, Delhi
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Dear Ms. George,
The problem stated by you is a typical issue in Indian companies. Instead of running off, I suggest viewing it as a challenge. I recommend implementing creative measures to boost morale within the organization. Discuss these measures with the owner positively. Explain that due to the high attrition rate, it is your moral responsibility to address it. By taking this approach, you may restore trust and faith in your capabilities and gradually steer the organization in the right direction.
You could propose awards for the best employee in terms of performance, adherence to norms and protocols, regularity, and punctuality. Additionally, consider organizing programs for soft skills development, motivation, and leadership skills for the employees.
Convince management that you are planning these initiatives to ensure that individuals comply with the organization's norms, protocols, and rules. By doing so, management will likely appreciate your efforts to help restore the organization's health and foster a positive environment.
Thank you.
From India, Delhi
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The problem stated by you is a typical issue in Indian companies. Instead of running off, I suggest viewing it as a challenge. I recommend implementing creative measures to boost morale within the organization. Discuss these measures with the owner positively. Explain that due to the high attrition rate, it is your moral responsibility to address it. By taking this approach, you may restore trust and faith in your capabilities and gradually steer the organization in the right direction.
You could propose awards for the best employee in terms of performance, adherence to norms and protocols, regularity, and punctuality. Additionally, consider organizing programs for soft skills development, motivation, and leadership skills for the employees.
Convince management that you are planning these initiatives to ensure that individuals comply with the organization's norms, protocols, and rules. By doing so, management will likely appreciate your efforts to help restore the organization's health and foster a positive environment.
Thank you.
From India, Delhi
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Thank you for sharing your problem with us. From modern HR practices, it is totally wrong to mistreat employees. In our country, no professional person will stay for a month with an organization having such a policy. Is there any labor union or collective agreement in your company? Such issues can be easily solved through a union. Otherwise, it will be difficult for you to convince the owner(s). Ultimately, you have to find another job or resign yourself. Good luck.
Welday, Ethiopia.
From Ethiopia, Addis Abeba
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Welday, Ethiopia.
From Ethiopia, Addis Abeba
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Dear George,
After reading your message, I feel your management wants to impose discipline in the company. This could be achieved in other ways as well, like rewarding the person for keeping the workplace clean, switching off the lights, and keeping the table clean. The reward need not be monetary; it could be giving a bouquet, displaying the person's name on the notice board, etc. This way, the employees would be motivated to keep their workplace clean.
Regards,
Raghav
From India, Bangalore
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After reading your message, I feel your management wants to impose discipline in the company. This could be achieved in other ways as well, like rewarding the person for keeping the workplace clean, switching off the lights, and keeping the table clean. The reward need not be monetary; it could be giving a bouquet, displaying the person's name on the notice board, etc. This way, the employees would be motivated to keep their workplace clean.
Regards,
Raghav
From India, Bangalore
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