Dear Seniors,
I would like to know, can an employee work after reaching the retirement age of 58 years? If so, there are several queries that arise, as stated below:
1. Will he work for us as a temporary or permanent employee?
2. Does he work for the company on the roll or off the roll?
3. Who will generate the salary for him?
4. Will his salary be mentioned with the other employees' salary or not?
We have a condition that requires us to take him on board at any cost. Please suggest the compliance and statutory requirements for this situation.
Kindly advise.
From India, Delhi
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2I would like to know, can an employee work after reaching the retirement age of 58 years? If so, there are several queries that arise, as stated below:
1. Will he work for us as a temporary or permanent employee?
2. Does he work for the company on the roll or off the roll?
3. Who will generate the salary for him?
4. Will his salary be mentioned with the other employees' salary or not?
We have a condition that requires us to take him on board at any cost. Please suggest the compliance and statutory requirements for this situation.
Kindly advise.
From India, Delhi
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Hi Manpreet,
You can have an employee work after the age of 58 by hiring them as a consultant. A proper agreement should be made between the employee and the management outlining the terms and conditions of the work and payment.
Salary can be paid either as a cash voucher or through a bank payment (with TDS deductions). If the individual is engaged as a consultant, there is no requirement to include them on the payroll, offer PF, bonuses, or other amenities.
From United Kingdom, London
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You can have an employee work after the age of 58 by hiring them as a consultant. A proper agreement should be made between the employee and the management outlining the terms and conditions of the work and payment.
Salary can be paid either as a cash voucher or through a bank payment (with TDS deductions). If the individual is engaged as a consultant, there is no requirement to include them on the payroll, offer PF, bonuses, or other amenities.
From United Kingdom, London
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Dear Mr. Anand,
Thank you for your valuable feedback.
I want to ask one more thing - can we proceed with him with the same salary, or do we have to revise it at his completion age of retirement? Is there an obligation for proceeding the same?
Thank you again, in anticipation!
Best Regards,
Manpreet Kaur
Sr. HR Executive
Corporate HR
From India, Delhi
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Thank you for your valuable feedback.
I want to ask one more thing - can we proceed with him with the same salary, or do we have to revise it at his completion age of retirement? Is there an obligation for proceeding the same?
Thank you again, in anticipation!
Best Regards,
Manpreet Kaur
Sr. HR Executive
Corporate HR
From India, Delhi
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Hi Manpreet,
There is no problem continuing with the same salary if the employee agrees to work. They would undergo an agreement.
Have a mutual discussion with the employee and inform them that you will revise their salary year over year (YOY).
From United Kingdom, London
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There is no problem continuing with the same salary if the employee agrees to work. They would undergo an agreement.
Have a mutual discussion with the employee and inform them that you will revise their salary year over year (YOY).
From United Kingdom, London
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Dear Mr. Anand,
I would like to thank you for taking the time out of your busy schedule to understand me about this point as mentioned above. I would really appreciate your valuable inputs and discussed the same with the V.P, M.P, and other senior persons. They are also pleased to know that I try my best to figure out the solution.
Again, thank you very much, sir, for your valuable time and effort.
From India, Delhi
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I would like to thank you for taking the time out of your busy schedule to understand me about this point as mentioned above. I would really appreciate your valuable inputs and discussed the same with the V.P, M.P, and other senior persons. They are also pleased to know that I try my best to figure out the solution.
Again, thank you very much, sir, for your valuable time and effort.
From India, Delhi
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Hi Manpreet,
You are always welcome as a member of citehr and should help others by sharing knowledge. We also have two employees whom we are continuing to employ after retirement. If you would like a copy of the agreement, I can help you out.
From United Kingdom, London
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You are always welcome as a member of citehr and should help others by sharing knowledge. We also have two employees whom we are continuing to employ after retirement. If you would like a copy of the agreement, I can help you out.
From United Kingdom, London
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I retired from Larsen & Toubro after 31 years of service. I was asked to continue for two more years as a Consultant. The compensation calculated was 80% of the last drawn salary. No other benefits are provided, unlike a regular employee. Everything is calculated and included in the compensation amount.
Draw up an agreement where you should list out all his responsibilities. Being a consultant, at times the organization may not empower the consultant to have executive powers, signing authority, etc. These factors need to be discussed, perhaps with a labor lawyer, as it may have legal implications.
From India, Bengaluru
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Draw up an agreement where you should list out all his responsibilities. Being a consultant, at times the organization may not empower the consultant to have executive powers, signing authority, etc. These factors need to be discussed, perhaps with a labor lawyer, as it may have legal implications.
From India, Bengaluru
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Dear Mr. Manpreeet,
I realize that your query was pertaining to mostly the statutory and compliance part, however, I thought I'll make a few points to look at it in a different perspective.
1. When you attain an age like that of retirement, there is a lot of anxiety, which is mostly in mind. I am not getting into the cultural aspects, however, I'd just say, let's replace the word, "retired senior" with the word "Veteran" and "work" with "being engaged." Just this little thought in itself can change the whole thinking process that the senior man can bring his accrued experience and wisdom to the work place.
2. The advantage of veterans in your ranks
The most significant aspects of having veterans in your ranks is that they bring with them a sense of dedication and loyalty, strong work ethic, and their own brand of fundamental core values, integrity, character, focus, discipline and principles!
It is widely felt, that veterans during their course of professional life would have
received incredible training and have performed under pressure in some of the toughest
conditions, and so they can understand the important skills that make organization
successful. The general consideration is that veterans are professionals who in their
days as employees were taken to be high integrity professional those who have
achieved great things under several critical and trying conditions. They can never
be underestimated.
Veterans can actually be a significant source of Productivity and Talent. They can
add a great deal of value with their energy which can help strengthen the leadership
pipeline.
Veteran can be seriously good with mission driven projects and teamwork skills
But here’s the challenge: reasons companies might not hire veterans:
The first is inability to find extremely successful hardcore professional and when
you find them the worrying factor is their getting acclimatized to people and the new
environment.
They can be rigid in their thinking, not willing to easily accept what the young lot
would have to say on issues.
They could always take you back to their domain/industry experiences which could
be far too different from the present domain/industry
One could have trouble with skills mismatch and transformation, especially their
defensive stereotype thinking which young easily say is negative thinking
You can't deploy them easily on to whatever you want as you have to take several
things into consideration before making the move. They could range from physical -
mental, personal to professional.
Veteran do have another challenge and that's their temperament, and the feeling of
being the boss, just because of the number of years behind them.
Lastly would be the terms on which they can be employed, what would they be
offered including perks and the timings etc. Clearly there is a gap between the
recognition of veterans’ strengths and the ability to develop those strengths to the
needs of the company.
If the veteran has a significant amount of experience he could be chosen to be a “consultant” in a similar type of an industry, by which one can not only derive benefit of his experience, it could mean the company can use the veterans contacts and the goodwill created in the past. I've know several who wee retained by textile companies, metallurgy companies, finance companies, banks, insurance and IT too.
The ways in which they get engaged is as an “advisor” and they receive what companies call as a “Consulting Fee” which will be a certain bulk sum of money paid to them monthly with a 10% TDS deduction. They will also mutually fix the timings of availability and the fee is negotiated accordingly. The veteran will have to file IT Returns based on the expenditure incurred. The veteran is not eligible for any other deductions or benefits such as Medical Coverage, PF, Gratuity, etc that employees during the course of their employment.
If one is fortunate to get the right veteran on-board then the company stands to gain enormously.
Just for you to know, and please do not misunderstand me for you might think I am "blowing my own trumpet," I am retired for well over three years now, I have made the transition smoothly, I keep myself up-to-date on several topics, evolving all the time, I believe in being trendy, I never risk advising people, especially unsolicited, but certainly do all that is best to arouse inner spark in those who need my guidance. My nickname is "COACH" and am held in high regard both professionally, and accepted with respect as veteran.
Trust this information will be useful.
Best wishes,
Warm regards,
From India, Hyderabad
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I realize that your query was pertaining to mostly the statutory and compliance part, however, I thought I'll make a few points to look at it in a different perspective.
1. When you attain an age like that of retirement, there is a lot of anxiety, which is mostly in mind. I am not getting into the cultural aspects, however, I'd just say, let's replace the word, "retired senior" with the word "Veteran" and "work" with "being engaged." Just this little thought in itself can change the whole thinking process that the senior man can bring his accrued experience and wisdom to the work place.
2. The advantage of veterans in your ranks
The most significant aspects of having veterans in your ranks is that they bring with them a sense of dedication and loyalty, strong work ethic, and their own brand of fundamental core values, integrity, character, focus, discipline and principles!
It is widely felt, that veterans during their course of professional life would have
received incredible training and have performed under pressure in some of the toughest
conditions, and so they can understand the important skills that make organization
successful. The general consideration is that veterans are professionals who in their
days as employees were taken to be high integrity professional those who have
achieved great things under several critical and trying conditions. They can never
be underestimated.
Veterans can actually be a significant source of Productivity and Talent. They can
add a great deal of value with their energy which can help strengthen the leadership
pipeline.
Veteran can be seriously good with mission driven projects and teamwork skills
But here’s the challenge: reasons companies might not hire veterans:
The first is inability to find extremely successful hardcore professional and when
you find them the worrying factor is their getting acclimatized to people and the new
environment.
They can be rigid in their thinking, not willing to easily accept what the young lot
would have to say on issues.
They could always take you back to their domain/industry experiences which could
be far too different from the present domain/industry
One could have trouble with skills mismatch and transformation, especially their
defensive stereotype thinking which young easily say is negative thinking
You can't deploy them easily on to whatever you want as you have to take several
things into consideration before making the move. They could range from physical -
mental, personal to professional.
Veteran do have another challenge and that's their temperament, and the feeling of
being the boss, just because of the number of years behind them.
Lastly would be the terms on which they can be employed, what would they be
offered including perks and the timings etc. Clearly there is a gap between the
recognition of veterans’ strengths and the ability to develop those strengths to the
needs of the company.
If the veteran has a significant amount of experience he could be chosen to be a “consultant” in a similar type of an industry, by which one can not only derive benefit of his experience, it could mean the company can use the veterans contacts and the goodwill created in the past. I've know several who wee retained by textile companies, metallurgy companies, finance companies, banks, insurance and IT too.
The ways in which they get engaged is as an “advisor” and they receive what companies call as a “Consulting Fee” which will be a certain bulk sum of money paid to them monthly with a 10% TDS deduction. They will also mutually fix the timings of availability and the fee is negotiated accordingly. The veteran will have to file IT Returns based on the expenditure incurred. The veteran is not eligible for any other deductions or benefits such as Medical Coverage, PF, Gratuity, etc that employees during the course of their employment.
If one is fortunate to get the right veteran on-board then the company stands to gain enormously.
Just for you to know, and please do not misunderstand me for you might think I am "blowing my own trumpet," I am retired for well over three years now, I have made the transition smoothly, I keep myself up-to-date on several topics, evolving all the time, I believe in being trendy, I never risk advising people, especially unsolicited, but certainly do all that is best to arouse inner spark in those who need my guidance. My nickname is "COACH" and am held in high regard both professionally, and accepted with respect as veteran.
Trust this information will be useful.
Best wishes,
Warm regards,
From India, Hyderabad
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Dear Manpreet,
The suggestions for your queries would depend on your HR policy. Irrespective of the policy, if you have it, no problem; otherwise, on the legal side, there is no bar to continue him/her by extending the service conditions. However, fixing his remuneration is at your own discretion and the employees' acceptance. His EPF can also continue, and he is presumed not eligible for ESI & Bonus as he/she would have crossed that threshold long ago. Many employers have set their retirement age at 60, or even beyond 60 if their health permits. Therefore, you can extend it up to 60 for the present and consider retaining him beyond that as a consultant or a contract employee, as you see fit.
Whether to include this in the payroll or separately would depend on your decision regarding the above.
Thank you.
From India, Bangalore
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The suggestions for your queries would depend on your HR policy. Irrespective of the policy, if you have it, no problem; otherwise, on the legal side, there is no bar to continue him/her by extending the service conditions. However, fixing his remuneration is at your own discretion and the employees' acceptance. His EPF can also continue, and he is presumed not eligible for ESI & Bonus as he/she would have crossed that threshold long ago. Many employers have set their retirement age at 60, or even beyond 60 if their health permits. Therefore, you can extend it up to 60 for the present and consider retaining him beyond that as a consultant or a contract employee, as you see fit.
Whether to include this in the payroll or separately would depend on your decision regarding the above.
Thank you.
From India, Bangalore
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Mr. Anand, I would be highly obliged to you, if you could share the "Employment Contract After Retirement".
From India, Delhi
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From India, Delhi
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Thank you, TSK Raman - that was very useful. As I work in a school, often when we struggle to find good qualified teachers, at times we invite retired teachers to come on part-time. It is very facilitative as they already know the system, and in fact, act as informal mentors - by their own choice!! Everyone seems happy with the arrangement.
From India, Mumbai
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From India, Mumbai
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Hi Manpreet Will send it to your by EOD to your gmail Id .....
From United Kingdom, London
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From United Kingdom, London
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Dear Manpreet,
As best said by Shri T.K. Raman, having a man with good values is a must for progress. The term veteran is an understatement; they will help the company progress in all aspects through observation. Leaps and bounds can be crossed with ease, and real progress can be achieved if a valued veteran is brought in.
Since you have mentioned the retirement age as 58, it is hoped that they are retired government employees who have, in many cases, helped institutions progress in all aspects.
The terms of perks can be established with due respect and honor. There should be no restrictions in providing good benefits. TDS should be deducted at the source rather than calculated afterwards. Additionally, the annual lump sum or consolidated amount can be determined to reflect their value and commitment. Everything depends on the requirements.
Thank you.
From India, Arcot
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As best said by Shri T.K. Raman, having a man with good values is a must for progress. The term veteran is an understatement; they will help the company progress in all aspects through observation. Leaps and bounds can be crossed with ease, and real progress can be achieved if a valued veteran is brought in.
Since you have mentioned the retirement age as 58, it is hoped that they are retired government employees who have, in many cases, helped institutions progress in all aspects.
The terms of perks can be established with due respect and honor. There should be no restrictions in providing good benefits. TDS should be deducted at the source rather than calculated afterwards. Additionally, the annual lump sum or consolidated amount can be determined to reflect their value and commitment. Everything depends on the requirements.
Thank you.
From India, Arcot
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I suggest keeping the retired professional on a contract basis. Keeping them as a consultant means you have to deduct 10% of their pay/fee as TDS, and they will lose a good chunk of earnings as the refund after IT return filing is onerous on them.
On a contract basis, you can also cover them under PF (the EPS portion is not applicable to them). Leaves may be decided as per your company policies.
Pon
From India, Lucknow
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On a contract basis, you can also cover them under PF (the EPS portion is not applicable to them). Leaves may be decided as per your company policies.
Pon
From India, Lucknow
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Dear Mr. Pon1965,
I am engaged as a Consultant (not an employee), and I find the 10% TDS much more beneficial. EPF, etc., are out of the question. You can get an engagement letter; it needn't be a contract, with the arrangement of one month's notice either way. This system has been working pretty perfectly. Not only for retired people, but there are also some consultants who prefer an arrangement of receiving a consulting fee of Rs. 'x' annually and Rs. 'x/12 - 10% TDS.'
Regards, TSK. Raman
From India, Hyderabad
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I am engaged as a Consultant (not an employee), and I find the 10% TDS much more beneficial. EPF, etc., are out of the question. You can get an engagement letter; it needn't be a contract, with the arrangement of one month's notice either way. This system has been working pretty perfectly. Not only for retired people, but there are also some consultants who prefer an arrangement of receiving a consulting fee of Rs. 'x' annually and Rs. 'x/12 - 10% TDS.'
Regards, TSK. Raman
From India, Hyderabad
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Dear Mr. Bernard Butty,
With due respect to you, I am unable to link your response to the subject under discussion - Work after retirement age 58 years, unless you are suggesting that if any retired professional wants to be an entrepreneur, and that you are offering services that they could consider.
Your response will be highly appreciated.
Warm regards,
TSK. Raman
From India, Hyderabad
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With due respect to you, I am unable to link your response to the subject under discussion - Work after retirement age 58 years, unless you are suggesting that if any retired professional wants to be an entrepreneur, and that you are offering services that they could consider.
Your response will be highly appreciated.
Warm regards,
TSK. Raman
From India, Hyderabad
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Senior staff can continue their work subject to the HR policy regarding promotion and seniority. Salary is mutual, as it is what motivates individuals to work. However, a senior person who extends their service cannot claim a promotion or salary hike in the future.
Regards,
Ravigi
From India, Calcutta
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Regards,
Ravigi
From India, Calcutta
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Dear AS_Ravi,
I would like to seek clarification with all the humility and ignorance I can summon. I fail to understand what this means as a response: "Hi, would appreciate if you could provide a copy of your EOD for my reference/use. Thanks in advance. Regards, Ravi." For most like me, EOD = End Of Day. What does this mean in your parlance?
Thank you.
From India, Hyderabad
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I would like to seek clarification with all the humility and ignorance I can summon. I fail to understand what this means as a response: "Hi, would appreciate if you could provide a copy of your EOD for my reference/use. Thanks in advance. Regards, Ravi." For most like me, EOD = End Of Day. What does this mean in your parlance?
Thank you.
From India, Hyderabad
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Dear AS_Ravi,
I would like to seek clarification with all the humility and ignorance I can summon. I fail to understand what this means as a response: "Hi, would appreciate if you could provide a copy of your EOD for my reference/use. Thanks in advance. Regards, Ravi."
For whom is this meant, and for most like me, EOD = End Of Day. What does this mean in your parlance.
Thank you.
From India, Hyderabad
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I would like to seek clarification with all the humility and ignorance I can summon. I fail to understand what this means as a response: "Hi, would appreciate if you could provide a copy of your EOD for my reference/use. Thanks in advance. Regards, Ravi."
For whom is this meant, and for most like me, EOD = End Of Day. What does this mean in your parlance.
Thank you.
From India, Hyderabad
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extreme apologies: it was meant to be a mail request to mr. anand for a copy on "employment contract after retirement". seriously, did not mean to offend. regards, ravi
From India, Calcutta
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From India, Calcutta
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Mr. Ravi,
That's okay. I appreciate your response; however, all this "extreme apologies: it was meant to be a mail request to Mr. Anand for a copy of the employment contract after retirement." Seriously, I did not mean to offend. Regards, Ravi makes me feel a little guilty. Anyway, I didn't mean anything that should make you feel hurt.
Regards,
TSK. Raman
From India, Hyderabad
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That's okay. I appreciate your response; however, all this "extreme apologies: it was meant to be a mail request to Mr. Anand for a copy of the employment contract after retirement." Seriously, I did not mean to offend. Regards, Ravi makes me feel a little guilty. Anyway, I didn't mean anything that should make you feel hurt.
Regards,
TSK. Raman
From India, Hyderabad
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Employers can engage employees after retirement but on a contract. The terms can be agreed upon depending on whether one will be working full-time. It is important that such provision be included in your HR policy, including terms and payment. For example, universities employ professors after retirement on a contract as a professor emeritus. They are not usually paid a full salary and other employment benefits.
From Kenya, Nairobi
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From Kenya, Nairobi
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Dear Seniors, Thank you very much for your reply. Sir, I need to know that do we need to provide him a relieving letter on the day of his retirement ?
From India, Delhi
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From India, Delhi
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Hi Manpreet Kaur,
You have to provide him with a relieving letter, F & F, PF Claim form, Gratuity, Experience certificate, and all others as per the policy. Most importantly, don't forget the "Farewell party" for his contribution towards his service. After one or two days, an agreement can be made to take him on as a consultant.
From United Kingdom, London
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You have to provide him with a relieving letter, F & F, PF Claim form, Gratuity, Experience certificate, and all others as per the policy. Most importantly, don't forget the "Farewell party" for his contribution towards his service. After one or two days, an agreement can be made to take him on as a consultant.
From United Kingdom, London
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Very good response from all members and particularly useful tips from Mr. N.K. Sundaram in the interest of the individuals retained in service after retirement and logical justifications for the utilization of the experience and expertise of the veterans from Mr. T.S.K. Raman in the interest of the organization.
Let me also share my views on the subject matter. No law prescribes the maximum age of employment, and it is left to the discretion of the employer. If I am correct, there is no age of retirement for employees other than the Managing Director in Sony Corporation. Maybe it is an exception. But in actual practice, the age of superannuation is fixed in the Standing Orders or Service Rules or Letter of Appointments, as the case may be.
The pertinent question, therefore, is how to treat the services of a superannuated employee on his retention beyond the age of retirement. Of course, there will be no problem in the case of persons holding senior positions as they can be retained as consultants. In the case of lower cadre, for example, a clerical assistant or an office boy, either their services can be extended beyond the age of superannuation or they can be re-appointed afresh after having been allowed to retire. The pay and other perks are to be decided mutually.
From India, Salem
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Let me also share my views on the subject matter. No law prescribes the maximum age of employment, and it is left to the discretion of the employer. If I am correct, there is no age of retirement for employees other than the Managing Director in Sony Corporation. Maybe it is an exception. But in actual practice, the age of superannuation is fixed in the Standing Orders or Service Rules or Letter of Appointments, as the case may be.
The pertinent question, therefore, is how to treat the services of a superannuated employee on his retention beyond the age of retirement. Of course, there will be no problem in the case of persons holding senior positions as they can be retained as consultants. In the case of lower cadre, for example, a clerical assistant or an office boy, either their services can be extended beyond the age of superannuation or they can be re-appointed afresh after having been allowed to retire. The pay and other perks are to be decided mutually.
From India, Salem
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Dear Mr. Anand,
I would like to ask you if any employee has completed the age of 58 years, can I extend his service and keep him a part of PF and ESI benefits as previously after his retirement. Is this possible or not? What changes will be there in filling the PF Challan for particular employees?
Please suggest to me how to do this. I hope you will give your valuable time to me for this query.
Thanks,
Himanshu Dwivedi
Sr. Executive-HR
From India, Bengaluru
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I would like to ask you if any employee has completed the age of 58 years, can I extend his service and keep him a part of PF and ESI benefits as previously after his retirement. Is this possible or not? What changes will be there in filling the PF Challan for particular employees?
Please suggest to me how to do this. I hope you will give your valuable time to me for this query.
Thanks,
Himanshu Dwivedi
Sr. Executive-HR
From India, Bengaluru
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To B. Annadkumar,
One of our employees is completing superannuation at the age of 60 years. He is currently working as a Regional Manager in sales. We would like to engage him on a contract basis. Please send me the draft agreement. We would greatly appreciate it if you could send it to my email address
.
Thanks & Kind regards,
Jayant Nisal Corporate Manager-HR/IR 78757567963
From India, Pune
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One of our employees is completing superannuation at the age of 60 years. He is currently working as a Regional Manager in sales. We would like to engage him on a contract basis. Please send me the draft agreement. We would greatly appreciate it if you could send it to my email address
Thanks & Kind regards,
Jayant Nisal Corporate Manager-HR/IR 78757567963
From India, Pune
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