Dear All,
This is regarding the misbehavior of a permanent employee who has been working for more than 17 years in the organization. For the past few months, he has been caught misbehaving with staff and external customers. He comes to the office drunk and speaks inappropriately to the customers in that state. He also uses rude language towards his seniors, among other issues.
We have had discussions with him and orally warned him many times. We also issued a letter to him to address his performance issues. However, he is unwilling to change his behavior and has shown no signs of improvement.
Now, we are considering what kind of action to take. Should we organize a domestic enquiry, suspend him, or terminate his employment? We would appreciate some guidelines on how to proceed.
Thank you.
Sincerely, [Your Name]
From India, Thana
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3This is regarding the misbehavior of a permanent employee who has been working for more than 17 years in the organization. For the past few months, he has been caught misbehaving with staff and external customers. He comes to the office drunk and speaks inappropriately to the customers in that state. He also uses rude language towards his seniors, among other issues.
We have had discussions with him and orally warned him many times. We also issued a letter to him to address his performance issues. However, he is unwilling to change his behavior and has shown no signs of improvement.
Now, we are considering what kind of action to take. Should we organize a domestic enquiry, suspend him, or terminate his employment? We would appreciate some guidelines on how to proceed.
Thank you.
Sincerely, [Your Name]
From India, Thana
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Hello,
Based on what you mentioned, the only option seems to be to terminate him with proper procedure and documentation in place. However, before you do it, suggest checking out a few aspects since he worked for more than 17 years in your company.
Was any effort made to investigate the reasons, which are different from warnings or discussions, for his current attitude or behavior? I presume he was okay earlier, or else he wouldn't have been serving the company for 17 years.
If there are any issues regarding official matters that could be the reasons, it becomes imperative that you assist in resolving them. However, if the reasons relate to any personal issues, essentially bringing personal troubles to the office, then you have two options. Option 1 is to terminate him. Option 2 is to help him recover and become effective again, but this depends on how much the company values his services and skills.
Regards,
TS
From India, Hyderabad
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Based on what you mentioned, the only option seems to be to terminate him with proper procedure and documentation in place. However, before you do it, suggest checking out a few aspects since he worked for more than 17 years in your company.
Was any effort made to investigate the reasons, which are different from warnings or discussions, for his current attitude or behavior? I presume he was okay earlier, or else he wouldn't have been serving the company for 17 years.
If there are any issues regarding official matters that could be the reasons, it becomes imperative that you assist in resolving them. However, if the reasons relate to any personal issues, essentially bringing personal troubles to the office, then you have two options. Option 1 is to terminate him. Option 2 is to help him recover and become effective again, but this depends on how much the company values his services and skills.
Regards,
TS
From India, Hyderabad
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Dear Sdd,
I don't understand why the permanent worker, who has served for 17 years, is behaving in this manner. It's important to introspect on the matter. The misconduct is serious and is punishable under the standing orders applicable to the company. The service can be easily terminated by issuing a charge sheet and conducting a proper inquiry. Before taking that step, counseling is crucial. Please attempt counseling first, and if there is no improvement, then appropriate action should be taken.
Regards,
M.M. Kulkarni
General Manager - HR
From India, Solapur
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I don't understand why the permanent worker, who has served for 17 years, is behaving in this manner. It's important to introspect on the matter. The misconduct is serious and is punishable under the standing orders applicable to the company. The service can be easily terminated by issuing a charge sheet and conducting a proper inquiry. Before taking that step, counseling is crucial. Please attempt counseling first, and if there is no improvement, then appropriate action should be taken.
Regards,
M.M. Kulkarni
General Manager - HR
From India, Solapur
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Dear TS,
Thank you for the valuable suggestions.
Terminations should be used as a last resort. As HR professionals, we should analyze the reasons why the employee has started misbehaving. It seems, as you also mentioned, that earlier he may have been a good employee. There may be various reasons:
1. Personal Issues: An employee comes to an organization as a whole personality. If there are problems at a personal level, they may surface at work as well.
2. His Current Status: It should be analyzed how he relates to his superiors and subordinates. Why there have been changes in his recent behavior.
3. Gossip and Politics: Whether he involves himself in office gossip and politics. Sometimes, employees become arrogant due to a politicized environment.
4. Any commitment from the management that has not been fulfilled.
5. Any changes in reporting relationships.
After analyzing the various reasons, try to counsel him to become a better employee. Involve him in daily meetings, develop more interaction with him, involve him in decision-making, and provide training and counseling, which will definitely be helpful.
Thanks
From India, New Delhi
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Thank you for the valuable suggestions.
Terminations should be used as a last resort. As HR professionals, we should analyze the reasons why the employee has started misbehaving. It seems, as you also mentioned, that earlier he may have been a good employee. There may be various reasons:
1. Personal Issues: An employee comes to an organization as a whole personality. If there are problems at a personal level, they may surface at work as well.
2. His Current Status: It should be analyzed how he relates to his superiors and subordinates. Why there have been changes in his recent behavior.
3. Gossip and Politics: Whether he involves himself in office gossip and politics. Sometimes, employees become arrogant due to a politicized environment.
4. Any commitment from the management that has not been fulfilled.
5. Any changes in reporting relationships.
After analyzing the various reasons, try to counsel him to become a better employee. Involve him in daily meetings, develop more interaction with him, involve him in decision-making, and provide training and counseling, which will definitely be helpful.
Thanks
From India, New Delhi
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The rules are prepared for all; there is no difference between new or old employees. Issue him a show-cause notice or give him a final warning letter. If he still does not improve, then terminate him for indiscipline during working hours.
From India, Delhi
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From India, Delhi
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Mr. Sdd,
First of all, you should obtain a written complaint from the staff and customers with whom the employee concerned misbehaved, along with proper witnesses/evidence to build your case.
On the basis of that issue, issue a Show Cause Notice (SCN) to him and suspend him until the submission of his reply.
If he submits an apology in his reply, issue a warning letter and advise him not to repeat the same in the future, giving him a chance to improve.
If he denies the allegations in his submission, set up a Domestic Enquiry and appoint an inquiry officer as required under the ID Act. If considered necessary, his suspension can be continued until the final enquiry report.
If the enquiry report proves the charges, take appropriate final action and impose a punishment as you and your management deem fit according to the standing orders applicable to your establishment.
Straightaway termination is not advisable. If immediate termination occurs, it may be overturned by the Labour Court if the employee challenges it.
Pkjain
From India, Delhi
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First of all, you should obtain a written complaint from the staff and customers with whom the employee concerned misbehaved, along with proper witnesses/evidence to build your case.
On the basis of that issue, issue a Show Cause Notice (SCN) to him and suspend him until the submission of his reply.
If he submits an apology in his reply, issue a warning letter and advise him not to repeat the same in the future, giving him a chance to improve.
If he denies the allegations in his submission, set up a Domestic Enquiry and appoint an inquiry officer as required under the ID Act. If considered necessary, his suspension can be continued until the final enquiry report.
If the enquiry report proves the charges, take appropriate final action and impose a punishment as you and your management deem fit according to the standing orders applicable to your establishment.
Straightaway termination is not advisable. If immediate termination occurs, it may be overturned by the Labour Court if the employee challenges it.
Pkjain
From India, Delhi
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There are two ways to look at the problem. If the unseemly behavior is caused by external factors (factors that do not originate from his nature) like domestic reasons or as Bhardwaj has provided you with a list of them for easy reference, you need to correct them and counsel the employee. If the employee is unruly and undisciplined by his nature, I think the issue needs to be dealt with under the disciplinary rules of your establishment since the employee may mistake a soft approach like counseling for the ineffectiveness of the management.
B. Saikumar HR & Labour Law Advisor Mumbai
From India, Mumbai
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B. Saikumar HR & Labour Law Advisor Mumbai
From India, Mumbai
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Dear all,
In cases of attending duty under the influence of alcohol, the first step the management should take is to send the employee to a pathology lab to test the alcohol content in their blood. If that is not possible, the management must have witnesses (co-employees) who provide written statements confirming that the employee was under the influence of alcohol. According to the Supreme Court, signs such as red eyes and the smell of alcohol can be considered as evidence. On the day the employee is found under the influence, immediate suspension can be enforced through a written letter. Following this, the employee can either be issued a show cause notice or a charge sheet. If the management decides to terminate the employee's services, a proper departmental inquiry as per the standing orders is mandatory. However, if a warning or a 4-day suspension is to be given, an inquiry is not necessary. The number of years the employee has worked in the organization is not relevant. Past misconducts can be considered as part of the employee's service record when determining the appropriate disciplinary action. For any further doubts, I am available to provide advice.
S.M. Paranjape
Advocate (Labour Law Consultant)
9850083760
From India, Pune
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In cases of attending duty under the influence of alcohol, the first step the management should take is to send the employee to a pathology lab to test the alcohol content in their blood. If that is not possible, the management must have witnesses (co-employees) who provide written statements confirming that the employee was under the influence of alcohol. According to the Supreme Court, signs such as red eyes and the smell of alcohol can be considered as evidence. On the day the employee is found under the influence, immediate suspension can be enforced through a written letter. Following this, the employee can either be issued a show cause notice or a charge sheet. If the management decides to terminate the employee's services, a proper departmental inquiry as per the standing orders is mandatory. However, if a warning or a 4-day suspension is to be given, an inquiry is not necessary. The number of years the employee has worked in the organization is not relevant. Past misconducts can be considered as part of the employee's service record when determining the appropriate disciplinary action. For any further doubts, I am available to provide advice.
S.M. Paranjape
Advocate (Labour Law Consultant)
9850083760
From India, Pune
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No need to think much, just issue a show cause notice with immediate effect. If he realizes his mistake and is ready to apologize in writing and commit to retaining the office decorum as desired, in that case, you can retain that employee. Otherwise, you can appoint an inquiry officer and terminate that person for a major misconduct. There is no need for counseling as it will only encourage him to repeat the indiscipline. So, go for strict action against the employee as it is a priority to maintain a harmonious environment in the company.
From India, Delhi
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From India, Delhi
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Hello everyone,
This is a very sensitive issue regarding an employee who served the organization for almost 17 years, which should be appreciated first. As an HR professional, I can say that it should be the first responsibility of HR in that organization to be empathetic. They should first try to understand the reason behind his unaccepted behavior.
To check his past records to see if such behavior was seen earlier or if this is the first time. If this behavior is repetitive, then HR should deal with it stringently. However, if it is the first time, the reason behind this behavior should be traced. The next step is to connect with the employee, communicate with them, and counsel them. If the employee is valuable to the organization, their suspension or termination could result in a loss of manpower for the organization.
Thank you.
From India, Hyderabad
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This is a very sensitive issue regarding an employee who served the organization for almost 17 years, which should be appreciated first. As an HR professional, I can say that it should be the first responsibility of HR in that organization to be empathetic. They should first try to understand the reason behind his unaccepted behavior.
To check his past records to see if such behavior was seen earlier or if this is the first time. If this behavior is repetitive, then HR should deal with it stringently. However, if it is the first time, the reason behind this behavior should be traced. The next step is to connect with the employee, communicate with them, and counsel them. If the employee is valuable to the organization, their suspension or termination could result in a loss of manpower for the organization.
Thank you.
From India, Hyderabad
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Hi Suresh,
Look at the issue from the management's point of view. An employee will always behave like an employee; they will have hundreds of reasons to justify their mistakes. So what if they have served for 17 years or 100 years, it doesn't mean they can spoil the workplace. Take strict action as per your company's HR policy. If you show mercy, you cannot be a manager. Rules are applicable regardless of anyone's position within the company.
1. Gather co-workers' opinions about him.
2. Warn him with a written letter, and if he apologizes, get the apology in writing.
3. If he continues the behavior, issue him a termination letter with a notice period (optional).
Keep all the supporting documents and proofs of his misbehavior inside the office premises.
Regards,
Suresh
From India, Chennai
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Look at the issue from the management's point of view. An employee will always behave like an employee; they will have hundreds of reasons to justify their mistakes. So what if they have served for 17 years or 100 years, it doesn't mean they can spoil the workplace. Take strict action as per your company's HR policy. If you show mercy, you cannot be a manager. Rules are applicable regardless of anyone's position within the company.
1. Gather co-workers' opinions about him.
2. Warn him with a written letter, and if he apologizes, get the apology in writing.
3. If he continues the behavior, issue him a termination letter with a notice period (optional).
Keep all the supporting documents and proofs of his misbehavior inside the office premises.
Regards,
Suresh
From India, Chennai
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Dear SDD,
I request you to talk to his family since, in most cases, family issues and minor misunderstandings between a boss and subordinate relationship may be the reason for these strange activities. It can be solved if you try to talk to the person with personal care along with his family.
Thanks,
ASK
From India, Madras
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I request you to talk to his family since, in most cases, family issues and minor misunderstandings between a boss and subordinate relationship may be the reason for these strange activities. It can be solved if you try to talk to the person with personal care along with his family.
Thanks,
ASK
From India, Madras
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Empathy is the most misunderstood concept in HR. Many a time, instead of empathizing, we end up sympathizing with the employee unknowingly, which is often found to be misplaced. In the instant case, the employee has reached the pinnacle of indiscipline by coming to the office in a drunken condition and misbehaving with customers, who constitute the bread and butter of an organization. He has been warned many times before about his unseemly behavior, yet he persists in it. Should HR devote all its time and energy to reforming an incorrigible employee, much to the neglect of its other responsibilities? However, I am not advocating any summary dismissal of the employee. If HR still feels that there is a scope for reforming the employee, it can give another chance. If not, the case merits disciplinary action. It is up to HR to make a prudent decision.
B. Saikumar
HR & Labour Law Advisor
Mumbai
From India, Mumbai
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B. Saikumar
HR & Labour Law Advisor
Mumbai
From India, Mumbai
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Hi, This is Divyaanusha. I have been working as an Executive HR in hospitals. I have to give circulars regarding staff nurses and admin staff behavior and their respective nature with their superiors, HODs, and doctors during their working hours. Because some of the staff is not maintaining respective nature. Please help me.
From India, Hyderabad
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From India, Hyderabad
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Dear SDD,
In what capacity is the workman working? If he is in the worker category and standing orders are applicable to him, then you have to issue a charge sheet, conduct a domestic enquiry, and if the misconduct is proved in the enquiry, then the past record of the worker has to be examined. Then you can take the appropriate decision.
From India, Pune
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In what capacity is the workman working? If he is in the worker category and standing orders are applicable to him, then you have to issue a charge sheet, conduct a domestic enquiry, and if the misconduct is proved in the enquiry, then the past record of the worker has to be examined. Then you can take the appropriate decision.
From India, Pune
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(Fact Checked)-The user reply is accurate based on labor laws and best practices. (1 Acknowledge point)
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Initially, we have to establish the misconduct of the employee by testing their blood at a pathology lab and obtaining written complaints from witnesses. We need to make the employee admit that they were under the influence of alcohol, build a file, and give them a chance to improve. If the employee still doesn't change and repeats the misconduct, proceed with a domestic enquiry following the principles of natural justice strictly, and then terminate their employment.
In such a case, even if the employee takes legal action and goes to court, the management should ensure they are on the right side.
Thank you,
GK
HR
From India, Mumbai
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In such a case, even if the employee takes legal action and goes to court, the management should ensure they are on the right side.
Thank you,
GK
HR
From India, Mumbai
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DISCIPLINARY ACTION.ppt
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(Fact Checked)-The user's reply contains valuable insights on analyzing the root causes of the employee's misbehavior and implementing corrective actions. Encouraging a holistic approach to addressing the issue is commendable. (1 Acknowledge point)